LED drivers accessible?

[Sheyac]

Hi

I'm carrying out a full rewire during the refurbishment of my house. I have notified the council and paid my fees; they'll come in and test after I'm done.

After finishing the main wiring I'm now looking at accent lighting before all the walls and ceilings are skimmed.

I have 2 bathrooms, back to back, with an intentional service void between them to house a toilet cistern, create alcoves for each bathroom and stuff insulation between them for noise.

I'm unsure about a couple of things:

1. What type of LED lights are suitable for the alcove within the shower? I presume it has to be IPX5 minimum? And SELV?
2. Are there any regs about having the driver for the LED lights accessible? Can I place it within the sealed service void or do I have to find somewhere else?
3. Can the accent lights to the alcove be wired off the switched line to the extractor fan?

 

[bernardgreen]

Can I place it within the sealed service void

Yes you can but be prepared to remove the panels when the LED "driver" fails, or if poorly made, catches fire.

The LED "drivers" for LED strips are in fact switch mode power supplies. The 12 volt DC output is seldom smoothed DC ( unless you have bought very good quality devices ) and will radiate radio frequency energy from the lead between "driver" and LEDs. Many are rated as 12v (eff) DC eff = effective and means the average voltage is about 12 volts but ,ay be peaks of high voltage ( more then 30 volts has been measured on some cheap imports ) which will shorten the life of LEDs

EDIT I forgot to mention that the radiated radio frequency energy can affect wireless devices and radio reception.

 

[Sheyac]

Thanks! I hadn't thought that they'd break down.

I have a downlight nearby where I can stick my hand through to the ceiling cavity, any issues with putting it in there within arms reach? There's 100 mm of insulation above the downlights, but I have insulation coverable ones.

 

[aptsys]

1. What type of LED lights are suitable for the alcove within the shower? I presume it has to be IPX5 minimum? And SELV?
2. Are there any regs about having the driver for the LED lights accessible? Can I place it within the sealed service void or do I have to find somewhere else?
3. Can the accent lights to the alcove be wired off the switched line to the extractor fan?

Do you have a copy of the regs?

 

[bernardgreen]

I forgot to mention that the radiated radio frequency energy can affect wireless devices and radio reception.

Which requires that the lead from the "driver" (power supply) to the LEDs should be as short as possible. Some manufacturers specify a maximum length for these leads.

 

[Sheyac]

I think no matter where the driver ends up, the length to the LEDs should be within 2 meters. Does that seem reasonable?

I could also place the drivers on the floor above, but it would be in a bedroom wardrobe so I'd rather not.

So better to place in ceiling void (accessible from down light hole) or in bedroom wardrobe?

I'm looking at these as an option:
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p10785

 

[bernardgreen]

• 2m cable x 12V AC 0.5W per deck light

Which suggests that the AC output does not create excessive RFI with a 2 metre lead between power supply and LED lamp.

 

[Sheyac]

Didn't notice that, I'll look for a DC driver and lights.

Looks like deck lights are the right item, they're IP67 or IP68 and tend to be small. Are these generally the thing to use for lighting shower niches?

@aptsys I haven't got a copy of the regs, but I'm not doing anything unusual with the circuits (I.e. ring is in 2.5 t+e, max length 100 meters, lighting is in 1mm t+e, max length 70 meters - all circuits are RCD protected and all wiring is in permitted zones).

 

[bernardgreen]

Didn't notice that, I'll look for a DC driver and lights.

Provided the supplier states that the lamps and the "driver" (power supply) are compatible then AC or DC makes no real differemce. If supplied as a kit from a reputable supplier then compatibily is ( should be ) assured.

 

[ericmark]

An electrolytic capacitor has a limited life, switch mode power supplies have electrolytic capacitors in them, so they will at some time fail, now a Toroidal Transformer can also fail, however it could also last for 50 years, they cost a little more, but if access is difficult then may be worth it, but these are 50 Hz AC, however most MR16 LED replacements are rated 50 Hz so clearly AC anyway not DC.

Note:- I am careful not to call them MR16 as in the main the LED version has no mirror (reflector) so can't be MR (multifaceted reflector).

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think what aptsys was implying, among other things, is that your lights do not have to be SELV.

If 230V, they must be IPX4 or IPX5, depending on the water jets, and stated as suitable for the location by the manufacturer.

 

[Sheyac]

Thanks all for the great replies and information.

I think I'm more comfortable having 12v where I'm showering and picking up shampoo bottles etc.

The only issue I'm faced with now is where to site the driver?
A) ceiling void under insulation (accessible from down light hole)
B) floor above in wardrobe
C) under bath tub (accessible if removing bath panel)
D) a blanked back box

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think I'm more comfortable having 12v where I'm showering and picking up shampoo bottles etc.

Is it an electric shower?

 

[Sheyac]

Its a digital shower (SELV control panel in the shower).