Led neons, Correct wire types

[JohnW2]

One for Winston.

I reckon it probably is

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jolt321]

Here is the type of leds inside the neon. Here's a cheeky little one I've just made aswell.


At the moment I have some 18awg stranded wire that came with the LEDs. It's quite thin and not ideal.

I have bought a pack of female 12 v jack leads to connect to my 12v power pack.

Moving forward i want something better. Looking for a better quality wire to purchase, suitable for when soldering these 12 v LEDs.

Then something suitable for my end piece of wiring, which will be going back to the 12v power pack.

 

[Jolt321]

Here is the type of leds inside the neon. Here's a cheeky little one I've just made aswell.


At the moment I have some 18awg stranded wire that came with the LEDs. It's quite thin and not ideal.

I have bought a pack of female 12 v jack leads to connect to my 12v power pack.

Moving forward i want something better. Looking for a better quality wire to purchase, suitable for when soldering these 12 v LEDs.

Then something suitable for my end piece of wiring, which will be going back to the 12v power pack.

 

[Jolt321]

A LED is a current dependent device, some where you need to limit the current, as a pre-assembled unit they normally use resistors, but there is no single method, so much depends on the units you have.

View attachment 281487
The resistor controls the current through the three LED elements

Some of these strips are too bright for direct viewing when the supply is 12 volts. I have used 9 volts for some installations for this reason.

This is the LEDs I'm working with.

 

[SFK]

For general interest,
Big Clive has shown these a few times.

And

And for the OP I have used speaker cable for this type of LED strip lights as can easily choose diameter of cable to match requirement and easy to solder.

Also to make soldering easier consider buying some flux (as a pen or in a tin) to lightly cover the solder pads and cable ends before soldering.

And if doing a lot if soldering get a "soldering station" on which you can modify the temperature of the soldering iron.

Here is a budget one (others are available)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/A-BFastiron-ABF-936B-A-Bfastiron-Soldering-Station/dp/B08F52DJ32/

SFK

 

[winston1]

At the moment I have some 18awg stranded wire that came with the LEDs. It's quite thin and not ideal.

Are you sure. AWG = American wire gauge which is not used here. We use SWG, standard wire gauge. 18 SWG if that is what you have is quite thick and not flexible.

 

[Jolt321]

Are you sure. AWG = American wire gauge which is not used here. We use SWG, standard wire gauge. 18 SWG if that is what you have is quite thick and not flexible.

Sorry your quite right. The 18awg( yes, American, it's just what Amazon sent me) is from the 12v female jacks I have just bought.

Just been playing with it there and it is indeed very thick.

The stuff I already have is much thinner than that, there is no markings on it but it is stranded and there is literally 5 strands per wire. It has worked so far but I want to use whatever is generally considered the best type of thing for this work.

 

[Jolt321]

For general interest,
Big Clive has shown these a few times.

And

And for the OP I have used speaker cable for this type of LED strip lights as can easily choose diameter of cable to match requirement and easy to solder.

Also to make soldering easier consider buying some flux (as a pen or in a tin) to lightly cover the solder pads and cable ends before soldering.

And if doing a lot if soldering get a "soldering station" on which you can modify the temperature of the soldering iron.

Here is a budget one (others are available)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/A-BFastiron-ABF-936B-A-Bfastiron-Soldering-Station/dp/B08F52DJ32/

SFK

Thanks, I've actually watched his videos as part of my research. I've got some flux and it makes the soldering so much easier.

I looked at some of the soldering stations and newer digital models but in the end I just went for a good old fashioned antex soldering iron. I'm a plater tradesman anyway so do quite a bit of welding so the soldering comes quite naturally.

I'lle have a look into speaker cable. I was debating actually buying a ked neon just to see how they are put together but they are expensive. I basically just want to safely wire them without any issues.

I'm presuming there was some sort of British standard for wiring 12v LEDs, like a go-to wire that will be able to take the max amps etc that 12v LEDs will produce but also still be easy to work with.

Then something that's better for forming the last soldered join and going back to my 12v power pack. Something with thicker sheathing.

 

[SFK]

Note that I do not use thicker wire because of the current. The copper tracks on the led strip have a very small cross section and are taking the same current as the wire.

I use thicker wire on LEDs to address the voltage drop. I use 0.75mm2 two core mains cable in the garden where their are several led lights sprayed over a 26m length.

So to better guage your requirements my questions are

What is the wattage of your lights per meter?
What length of lights are you using (so we can then determine Wattage and Amps being used)?
What distance between led driver and your lights?

Sfk

 

[Jolt321]

Note that I do not use thicker wire because of the current. The copper tracks on the led strip have a very small cross section and are taking the same current as the wire.

I use thicker wire on LEDs to address the voltage drop. I use 0.75mm2 two core mains cable in the garden where their are several led lights sprayed over a 26m length.

So to better guage your requirements my questions are

What is the wattage of your lights per meter?
What length of lights are you using (so we can then determine Wattage and Amps being used)?
What distance between led driver and your lights?

Sfk

I have bought a sample size of a few different colour led neons and there is no information as such on them. This is the LEDs themselves when taken out of the silicone housing. There is approx 1cm between each set of copper pads.


I was under the impression that the amps would be around 2. Power pack is 12v

24w= 12v x 2a. ?


The lengths are going to vary. It will depend on the design i am doing. Probably not longer than 5 metres on any case.


When you say distance between driver and lights?

Do you mean the distance between the first soldered joint and the 12v power source. In which was I was thinking around 1.5 -2 metres to allow suitable wall mounting while being suitable for lower sockets.

 

[SFK]

I was under the impression that the amps would be around 2. Power pack is 12v

I believe that most 12V LED neons are 12W per meter (some show it as 1Amp per meter which basically is the same thing) or 6W per meter

The 'per meter' is the critical item. - and you might need to contact the supplier to find out what they are providing (or use a multimeter to test you current usage).

So that means for a 12V Neon @ 12W/m that you need a:
'greater than 12W' 12V LED driver if you have 1m length
'greater than 24W' 12V LED driver if you have 2m length
'greater than 36W' 12V LED driver if you have 3m length
etc
This means you need to look at the lable on the driver and ensure it matches the length of LED that you are using.

When you say distance between driver and lights?

Yes.
What I was trying to say is that for short distances (ie the 1 to 3 meters you are talking about) the wire does not need to be monster sized.
Look at the size of the tracks on the LED tape - they are wide but not very thick.
You do not wire that is much bigger than the tracks (for shortish lengths of wire).
Hence why I use pseaker wire for short lengths, and 0.75mm2 wire for very long lengths as then voltage drop becomes a major issue not the current.

SFK

 

[Jolt321]

I believe that most 12V LED neons are 12W per meter (some show it as 1Amp per meter which basically is the same thing) or 6W per meter

The 'per meter' is the critical item. - and you might need to contact the supplier to find out what they are providing (or use a multimeter to test you current usage).

So that means for a 12V Neon @ 12W/m that you need a:
'greater than 12W' 12V LED driver if you have 1m length
'greater than 24W' 12V LED driver if you have 2m length
'greater than 36W' 12V LED driver if you have 3m length
etc
This means you need to look at the lable on the driver and ensure it matches the length of LED that you are using.





Yes.
What I was trying to say is that for short distances (ie the 1 to 3 meters you are talking about) the wire does not need to be monster sized.
Look at the size of the tracks on the LED tape - they are wide but not very thick.
You do not wire that is much bigger than the tracks (for shortish lengths of wire).
Hence why I use pseaker wire for short lengths, and 0.75mm2 wire for very long lengths as then voltage drop becomes a major issue not the current.

SFK

This is the 12v power supply that came with the sample I bought.

 

[SFK]

Ignoring the fact that it looks like a bit of dubious low quality driver (the language used does not inspire 100% confidence)

Output 12V, 5000mA = Output 12V, 5A, 60W

So good for up to a 5meter length of LED if it is rated at less than 12W per meter.

Note that you can happily use this on shorter lengths of LED, it is just less power efficient.

SFK

 

[Jolt321]

Ignoring the fact that it looks like a bit of dubious low quality driver (the language used does not inspire 100% confidence)

Output 12V, 5000mA = Output 12V, 5A, 60W

So good for up to a 5meter length of LED if it is rated at less than 12W per meter.

Note that you can happily use this on shorter lengths of LED, it is just less power efficient.

SFK

Haha , yes I'm aware it doesn't look the best. I have taken samples from a few different sources. All are similar quality and this one "felt" the best.


5 metres is what I was thinking. What would be the answer if the piece was to run over 5metres?

 

[SFK]

5 metres is what I was thinking. What would be the answer if the piece was to run over 5metres

Multiple power supplies, each speratly powering a (say) 5m length.

Or one single power supplies such as these from reputable suppliers.
This is one for example and this web site has lots of diffrent sizes (these need an enclosure).

https://cpc.farnell.com/mean-well/lrs-100-12/power-supply-ac-dc-12v-8-5a/dp/PW04776

BUT if you have one big power supply then cable size does become an issue and you might need to need to split your cables, so you have multiple cables starting from the power supply and going to each length of LED.

SFK