LED street lights, no spares available

[bernardgreen]

We have two LED street lights than have failed and for the time being cannot be repaired as there is no availability of the necessary parts. It leaves the centre of the village in darkness which is a concern for the safety of pedestrians.

Parish councillor

""LED lamps reduce the amount we pay for electricity but the cost of repair / replacement could be more than we save on electricity ""

"" the old lamps didn't present this problem ""

A similar story from a council in the north of England.

Is there a run on replacements for street lights or have the suppliers decided not to supply.

 

[RandomGrinch]

At 100-200 lm/W, would anyone want low pressure sodium back?
...a shame Philips stopped production in 2019

 

[Wayners]

It's not the cost of parts it's the lack of electricity available to power the lights is why they were switched.

Bet councils dump lights vs take the parts when post get knocked over.

 

[AndyPRK]

I think they are sealed uinits looking at this

Are some LED's out. Did both go off at the same time (i.e a supply or comms problem?)

 

[bernardgreen]

Did both go off at the same time (i.e a supply or comms problem?)

The failures were about 5 weeks apart. So not a supply problem and they are not on a comms network.

 

[Wayners]

We had kids going around pulling the fuses at the base. Bust covers to gain access. Also rocked a few to try and push over along ally.
Because they were old posts but new led tops they could not be fixed because old fuses were not available.

They came around again and replaced posts with new modern ones

 

[ericmark]

I can see the point swapping a tungsten at 20 lumen per watt for LED at maybe 100 lumen per watt, but be it sodium, mercury, or metal halide not convinced swapping to LED is cost effective. Be it street lamp or in the home, or the factory floor.

The big thing with LED is it is directional, this can both be better and worse, depending on what is being lit, but likely with street lighting it will result in needing less watts per meter of road, but again be in the street or in the home this may mean more or less light fittings per meter, or adjusting height, 200 yards (183 metres) or less is required for 30 MPH limit, there is also a height limit under which it is considered as walk way lighting and does not mean automatic 30 MPH limit, not sure about lumen output, but these rules mean street lamps do not only need to light the area, but also comply with legal requirements.

What I have been unable to find out, is when is a lamp not a lamp? If a local authority turns off street lighting, does that auto remove the speed limit? I am sure if the light fails then that will not immediately cause the speed limit to be cancelled, the posts are still there, but if they publicly announce the lights are being turned off, then that is like removing the posts.

If there are 30 MPH signs it does not need street lighting as long as the signs are lit. But due to street lights being a legal speed limit unless signs to contrary, it is not simply a case of any lamp will do.

 

[SUNRAY]

I can see the point swapping a tungsten at 20 lumen per watt for LED at maybe 100 lumen per watt, but be it sodium, mercury, or metal halide not convinced swapping to LED is cost effective. Be it street lamp or in the home, or the factory floor.

The big thing with LED is it is directional, this can both be better and worse, depending on what is being lit, but likely with street lighting it will result in needing less watts per meter of road, but again be in the street or in the home this may mean more or less light fittings per meter, or adjusting height, 200 yards (183 metres) or less is required for 30 MPH limit, there is also a height limit under which it is considered as walk way lighting and does not mean automatic 30 MPH limit, not sure about lumen output, but these rules mean street lamps do not only need to light the area, but also comply with legal requirements.

What I have been unable to find out, is when is a lamp not a lamp? If a local authority turns off street lighting, does that auto remove the speed limit? I am sure if the light fails then that will not immediately cause the speed limit to be cancelled, the posts are still there, but if they publicly announce the lights are being turned off, then that is like removing the posts.

If there are 30 MPH signs it does not need street lighting as long as the signs are lit. But due to street lights being a legal speed limit unless signs to contrary, it is not simply a case of any lamp will do.

The fittings were replaced in our street several years ago now and instantly we were plunged into near darkness with a little pool of light under each standard. Thank heavens a number of us put Christmas lights up otherwise some of our elderly neighbours wouldn't be able to be out after 2pm.

When I learnt to drive the legal minimum distance between lamps or 30 repeater signs was 176 yards, I knew of 2 drivers caught speeding where the lamps were way way more than 176 yards and successfully defended in court.
Crazy thing is the limit on that stretch then changed to 40 and posts were installed in between every lamp to get the required number of signs in, it would have been chaeper to remove the lamps.

I understand the rules have changed now

 

[aptsys]

At 100-200 lm/W, would anyone want low pressure sodium back?
...a shame Philips stopped production in 2019

It won't be anywhere near 200 lm/W, probably struggling to reach 100 lm/W since the LEDs rated for high efficiency are not achieving this with high flux LEDs being driven at the maximum output! If you look at the published data they get this number from the highest binned LED being driven at a couple of milliamps with the die maintained at 20 or 25°C.

 

[ericmark]

It won't be anywhere near 200 lm/W, probably struggling to reach 100 lm/W since the LEDs rated for high efficiency are not achieving this with high flux LEDs being driven at the maximum output! If you look at the published data they get this number from the highest binned LED being driven at a couple of milliamps with the die maintained at 20 or 25°C.

I also thought 200 lm/W seemed to be a bit high.

I remember working for a council and nearly everything we bought was with annual tender, we were permitted to go else where if there was a good reason, but it was hard to get authorisation, so if the company who had won the tender could not supply on time, it was often easier to simply wait, and if the price went up, some times we would be told no stock, as the firm would make a loss supplying us.

So yes very possible suppliers have decided not to supply, should be OK after 5th April when new tenders come in.

 

[RandomGrinch]

It won't be anywhere near 200 lm/W, probably struggling to reach 100 lm/W since the LEDs rated for high efficiency are not achieving this with high flux LEDs being driven at the maximum output! If you look at the published data they get this number from the highest binned LED being driven at a couple of milliamps with the die maintained at 20 or 25°C.

Sorry for any confusion
I meant 100 - 200 lm/W for the low pressure sodium lamps. Apparently they could be even more efficient if anyone was willing to put funding into development.
That wasn't going to happen!
I have had to buy up a load of Na bulbs, before supplies dry up. We use them for a lot of optics and spectrometer experiments.

 

[JohnD]

The fittings were replaced in our street several years ago now and instantly we were plunged into near darkness with a little pool of light under each standard. Thank heavens a number of us put Christmas lights up otherwise some of our elderly neighbours wouldn't be able to be out after 2pm.

In my district, the new LED streetlamps were pretty good when they first went in, though they were dimmed to half power at 00:30

Now they only come on at half power, and are turned off at 02:00

Very poor light now.

I may fit an external lamp additional, to the porch light.

 

[sparkwright]

I think they are sealed uinits looking at this

Are some LED's out. Did both go off at the same time (i.e a supply or comms problem?)

Some other fittings though, however, are supposed to be easy to repair - without having to replace the whole unit.

As I understand it, on some it's only the bank of LEDs or the sensor that go wrong, meaning a new card of lights can be fitted (if it's not a case of plugging in a new sensor).

How true this is, I don't know.

As a side note, looking at the video, apparently he had to resort to joining the flex with a wago in the bracket arm.

Can you not pull a new flex through a hinged column when the column is in the upright position then?

Or does the hinge part contain a very complex housing for the cable, with cord clamps etc???

EDIT. I suspect the inspection panel at the bottom only becomes open when the column is hinged open, that must be why he couldn't re-wire it.

 

[RandomGrinch]

If anyone's interested, 'Big Clive' has a few LED streetlamp teardowns :

 

[Old Salt]

Street lights did not come with a meter. Councils were supposed to declare any additions for a pro rata charge to their suppliers. Councils made no declarations, energy suppliers get smaller meters that will fit inside lampposts and threaten to install them. Councils move to leds.
Not strictly the only reasons but a shove in that direction.