LED switching capacity

[88v8]

Eterna PIR failed after 30 months.
It's switching a standalone 50W Eterna LED flood, both PIR and flood are tucked nice and dry under the eaves of our thatched.

At least, presume it's the PIR. The flood is flashing on/off continually when triggered and I can hear click click, it stops at the end of the On time.

Reading the PIR leaflet, capacity is 1000W incandescent, 300W fluorescent, nothing given for LED.

Looking at a Steinel PIR - not one I want to use = it gives 1100, 720, and 300W LED.

Quite a difference 1000/300 against 1100/720.

Do they just make these ratings up?

So, the Eterna PIR, I'd like to stick with it as it's two-way pointable and has the 110 degree angle I want, but do you reckon it should be OK for 50W of LED?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes, it should be fine, well within its rating. I also agree that it will be the PIR which is in some way faulty, causing the click, click. There are not usually any relays or anything in a LED to cause any clicking noises.

 

[333rocky333]

My theory but others may disagreee.
The best Pir used to use bigger relays, therefore were usually not affected by load, unless it was inductive load that could sometimes burn up or even weld the contacts.
Newer ones use more electronic switching that dont seem so good, i think the reason led is rated lower is not the load current but more the load type, the electronic switching is now in series with the Led driver electronics.
Any pir should manage 50W Led though, the Steinel 300W limit i dont think primarily applies to using 1 fitting larger than 300W if it exists,, i think its more to stop multiple fittings like seven 50w, again mainly because its powering seven drivers.
Similar thing with modern dimmers, they may say 40 watt Led dimmer but wont like say Forty 1 watt Led lamps

 

[JohnW2]

Newer ones use more electronic switching that dont seem so good, i think the reason led is rated lower is not the load current but more the load type, the electronic switching is now in series with the Led driver electronics.

I'm sure that's the case - it would make little sense for the electronics (powered by ELV DC) to use a relay, which would probably require at least as much power as would the LED itself - so it makes total sense to feed the LED directly from the electronics' DC.

This is, of course, a reason why, unlike the earlier ones with relays, modern PIR+(LED)light combinations do not have a PIR-switched (mains voltage) output for powering additional loads from the PIR.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

it makes total sense to feed the LED directly from the electronics' DC.

Although that was my thinking for combined light/pir combos, I still have my doubts with remote pirs like the OPs i still dont understand how they can still switch loads of 1kw Tungsten lighting without a relay, can they, what sort of electronics can do that, i tried google images but can only find circuits that do have relays

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

can they, what sort of electronics can do that, i tried google images but can only find circuits that do have relays

It can be done, with with a triac, it would probably be cheaper with a relay.

 

[JohnW2]

Although that was my thinking for combined light/pir combos, I still have my doubts with remote pirs like the OPs ...

Oh, I hadn't noticed that - my apologies. I was talking about combined PIRS+LEDs - in which case I stuill think it would make little sense to have a relay.

A still dont understand how they can still switch loads of 1kw Tungsten lighting without a relay, can they, what sort of electronics can do that, i tried google images but can only find circuits that do have relays

As Harry has said, you can certainly switch currents as high as you want with a suitable triac - but, as he says, a relay would quite probably be cheaper.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AdrianUK]

My money is on the LED floodlight being faulty - or rather the PSU in same being bad. The 'ticking' is the PSU shutting down & restarting, repeatedly, because it has (or believes it has) detected a fault condition.

I think the PIR will be found to be good - hence why the 'ticking' stops at the end of the 'ON' time.

It seems to be a common failure mode of modern LED luminaries - its not the light source that dies early, its the electronics ie. the power supply module.

 

[333rocky333]

I quess its worth linking out the photocell to check the light first, as Adrian says they do tend to flash erratically when the Led driver fails

 

[JohnW2]

My money is on the LED floodlight being faulty - or rather the PSU in same being bad. The 'ticking' is the PSU shutting down & restarting, repeatedly, because it has (or believes it has) detected a fault condition. ... I think the PIR will be found to be good - hence why the 'ticking' stops at the end of the 'ON' time.

.... The flood is flashing on/off continually when triggered and I can hear click click, it stops at the end of the On time.

Are the PIR and LED floodlight sufficiently far apart that you can be sure which one is 'ticking'?

As Adrian says, the obvious thing is to 'bypass' the PIR, to determine whether or not the floodlight works OK on its own.

Kind Regards, John

 

[88v8]

Are the PIR and LED floodlight sufficiently far apart that you can be sure which one is 'ticking'?
As Adrian says, the obvious thing is to 'bypass' the PIR, to determine whether or not the floodlight works OK on its own.

They're about a foot apart, so, no, I can't be sure.
The replacement PIR arrived. Same model. On the box it says LED capacity 200W but not exceeding eight lamps.

Previously our (halogen) flood was at the bottom of one barge board. A tree had grown, as they do, and was obscuring it. So I put up the LED flood + PIR right at the apex of the barge boards.
But when I did the job, we had scaffolding. The thatch was being titivated. Now, no scaffolding, they're blooming hard to reach. Slight planning failure there, but I thought LEDs were ever-lasting. Duh.

I'll let you know what transpires.

 

[88v8]

My money is on the LED floodlight being faulty .

Curses. You're right.
It flashes. Thanks for the tip.

So, need a new one. It's a 50W Eterna, came from LED Hut, They no longer sell Eterna.
This is it, I think https://www.bltdirect.com/eterna-ip65-cool-white-50w-black-led-economy-floodlight although all Eterna floods now have Economy in the title, which sounds like another word for cheap. LED Hut certainly have a lot of cheap stuff, or are all LEDS cheap now compared to three years ago?

What's a good make? Don't want to have to replace it again.

 

[bernardgreen]

Really good quality https://www.steinel.de/en/lights-sensors/products/floodlights/

 

[JohnW2]

Really good quality https://www.steinel.de/en/lights-sensors/products/floodlights/

As some of us suspected might be the case, the OP has just confirmed that it's the LED light, not the PIR, that needs to be replaced.

Kind Regards, John

 

[88v8]

Those Steinel look the dogs. But due to the vertical space available, or rather not available, none of the 50W will fit.

However, I found this Crompton https://www.ledbulbs.co.uk/products...ini-led-floodlight-ip66-50w-4200lm-cool-white with an eight year guarantee - not that that necessarily means much with an online seller - and I've ordered one.
I see from the Crompton site that this model is discontinued, and the replacement is only guaranteed five years, so I hope I receive the exact one I ordered.

Onwards.