Lighting electrics mystery

[survive]

Hi, I was hoping someone could help me with an electrical mystery I have.

I bought a house recently and in the living room there were two ceiling light fittings - both with 5-bulb fittings that I didn't like and wanted to swap for single-bulb fittings.

The first one swapped no problem. Turned the lights off at the fuse box. Remove the fitting to find a red, a black and a yellow/green wire. Connected them up to live earth, neutral as appropriate, fuse back, on light works perfectly.

Second light, same fitting but took it down and it was more complicated. Two red, two black, two green/yellow coming from the ceiling and a lot of tape holding it all together. Foolishly I did not pay much attention and just started taking it apart, but then I noticed the red wires did not seem to be connected to anything.

It confused me how 'live' could not be connected, but there seemed to be a bit of red tape on the (now disconnected) black ceiling wires so I figured the wiring was wrong and it needed to be connected black live, green/yellow neutral, red earth. Connected like that and it tripped the fuse. I connected to the correct colours and it tripped also.

The old (5 bulb) light was working perfectly before I took it down, I have tried every combination and the new (1 bulb fitting) trips every time. Help!

Combinations and results as below:

YG Live, R Neutral, B Earth - trips main RCD
YG Live , R Earth , B neutral - trips lights-fuse
YG neutral , R live , B earth - trips main RCD
YG neutral, R earth , B live - trips lights-fuse
YG Earth, R live , B neutral - turn on lights-fuse, bulb is on (in off position), switch bulb off, lights-fuse trips
YG earth, R neutral, B live - again, turn on lights-fuse bulb is on (in off position), switch bulb off, lights-fuse trips

 

[LoveRocket]

You sir, are an idiot.

You have connected the switch so as to create a dead-short when closed. That's why it's tripping the breaker, and as you seem to have been doing it over and over you may well have blown the contacts in the switch.

Have a look here and stop guessing.

 

[flameport]

The two green/yellow wires connect to the Earth terminal
The black wire is Neutral
The black wire with red tape is Live
The two red wires connect together but do not connect to anything else.

All explained here
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37582

Randomly shoving wires into every terminal is NOT the way to solve problems, and could make things much worse.

 

[conny]

Whats the odds on him posting back to thank you gentlemen for helping him out and everything is now working perfectly?

(Then again, whats the odds of him posting back fullstop! )

 

[sparkwright]

Survive?

Some name.

As you say, the two reds were connected together, and not to the light fitting itself. It worked before.

As you say, a black had red tape on it, suggesting live.

Now we need a neutral - one black wire left.

And the two earth wires will be the earth.

Please check all your connections and work safely. If in doubt, seek help.

 

[survive]

Yes, I realise I am an idiot.

The original fitting has 5 blue wires that are taped together and shoved into a single choc block.

The original fitting has 5 brown wires that were shoved into a single choc block.

The original fitting has one green/yello wire, no choc block, didn't appear to be attached to anything.

The ceiling has two red, two black, two yellow/green.

As said, I couldn't remember what was attached to what as I wasn't paying attention - foolishly assuming it would be the same as the previous light fitting until I realised the two red wires coming from the ceiling were connected together in a choc block and not connected to the fitting at all.

I admit my idiocy, I admit getting confused and frustrated and doing things I shouldn't but I am asking for your help. I've looked at the diagram page already, but didn't see anything I really understood. If there is an obvious solutuion I would be very grateful if you could point to exactly which diagram it is I should follow and why my red live / black neutral / green yellow logic was right for the first fitting but not the second.

Thanks.

 

[sparkwright]

Imagine you have live (red)
and neutral (black) from one cable.

You join onto the red with the red of a second cable which goes to the switch.

At the switch, this red can make or break with a black wire which is sleeved red - because it's live, NOT neutral.

This black but sleeved red then goes back to the light - the 'switch live'

The neutral is supplied from the first cable, and does not go the switch in any way.

Work safely.

 

[sparkwright]

I imagine the two lights are switched separately.

The first light is wired in a different way - possibly a junction box hidden somewhere, or the live and neutral is fed via the switch.

 

[LoveRocket]

Flamington has already told you.

The two green/yellow wires connect to the Earth terminal
The black wire is Neutral
The black wire with red tape is Live
The two red wires connect together but do not connect to anything else.

All explained here
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37582

Randomly shoving wires into every terminal is NOT the way to solve problems, and could make things much worse.

Connect the two reds together. One is the supply, the other if the feed to the switch.
The black with red sleeving is the switched live coming back from the switch - this goes to the live terminal on the light.
Neutral from supply cable to neutral terminal on the light.

Your idiocy is staggering, you were shoving phase conductors in to earth terminals. This could kill someone (it's a good job your RCD worked), please don't do anything like that again.

 

[flameport]

This is how it looks using a normal ceiling rose and a single lightswitch:

Untitled

• flameport
• 30 Jun 2010
• 1

Picture hacked together from several others, whcih is why some of the lines don't join up quite right.

 

[survive]

Right, calmed down, studied the diagrams better and figured it out. Light now working perfectly.

Sorry to disappoint you conny, but thanks all for your help and I understand your exasperation.

Incidentally, the RCDs worked very well because the house I moved into needed a lot of electrical work doing to it due to the previous owners not doing things to spec and I paid a qualified electrician to do a lot of work to get it safe including a brand new fuse box.

My frustration about this light fitting was after paying a lot of money to fix things I thought I'd found another botch job and yes, the irony of it trying to for it myself, causing my own botch job.

Some have got to feel superior (ok, rightly), some have been fantastically helpful and I've learned some lessons. Productive evening.

Thanks again.

 

[conny]

Sorry to disappoint you conny,

No probs mate, in fact, quite pleased to have been proved wrong!

 

[LoveRocket]

Right, calmed down, studied the diagrams better and figured it out. Light now working perfectly.

Sorry to disappoint you conny, but thanks all for your help and I understand your exasperation.

Incidentally, the RCDs worked very well because the house I moved into needed a lot of electrical work doing to it due to the previous owners not doing things to spec and I paid a qualified electrician to do a lot of work to get it safe including a brand new fuse box.

My frustration about this light fitting was after paying a lot of money to fix things I thought I'd found another botch job and yes, the irony of it trying to for it myself, causing my own botch job.

Some have got to feel superior (ok, rightly), some have been fantastically helpful and I've learned some lessons. Productive evening.

Thanks again.

Glad you got it sorted mate. Maybe I was a little harsh, but such is the importance of electrical safety. I'm all for DIY, but with lecky you can't blag it!