Line of junction notice

[lisap]

We have just been given, by our neighbour, a 'line of junction notice' and they have asked us to sign it and give it back to them. i'm not happy to just sign it without investigating further so came here to the trusty lot for help! We had plans sent to us in Jan. we voiced concerns for closeness to the boundary as we have soakaway drainage and damage to our fence/ patio as the fence gravel boards support the patio which is higher than their garden. the plans were passed and we were told that the building wasn't going to effect the soakaway as the downpipe was staying in place and the type of foundation used meant it was flush with their wall, if this makes sense.. They also said they wouldn't need to go on our property and any damage would be put right.

A cover letter said, amongst other things they are not appointing a party wall surveyor as they hope we will oblige to consent within a less formal notice!

The other piece of paper we had today says:
*Under section 1 (2), subject to your written consent
It is intended to build on the line of junction of the said lands a *party wall/party fence wall
*under section 1(5)
it is intended to build on the line of junction of the said lands a wall wholly on *my/our (crossed out!) own land
*under section 1(6)
it is intended to place projected footings and foundations on your land at my expense.
under section 7(4) it *is (crossed out) /is not proposed to employ special foundations, which would (crossed out)/ would not require your written consent.
The proposed work as shown on the accompanying drawings are:........
works to the boundary that will include removing os existing timber fence line, excavations for foundations to build a new single storey extension along the boundary line as indicated on attached drawings.This sounds different to what we have been told previously but its difficult to understand the jargon! I was hoping someone here can help! there was no telephone number of anyone to contact to discuss it and it says 'in the event of matters arising for settlement i would appoint as my surveyor 'the neighbours name'!! We don't speak to them (but he bought form round!) We have had boundary and garden disputes with them since living here, 12 years and 3 years ago, close to a nervous breakdown i told them not to speak to us again and any issue to put in writing. On doing this, stress levels came down but now this isn't helping!. (one of their issues was that trees in our garden blocked their sun in september between 6 and 7 in the evening!!)
Who can we speak to about this when there are no details? We feel uncomfortable about the whole thing and We have no extra cash to right the wrongs or employ solicitors. Hope you can help
Scared Lisa

 

[lisap]

just to add. i've just looked at the stuff we printed of from the town planners, when they passed the project and it say they are using 'eccentric foundations' which would 'avoid overlapping boundaries'. also says 'foundations overlapping into neighbours land would constitute encroachment which i considered under separate legislation'
Not sure wht all this means either!! Getting very stressed now!

 

[chapeau]

A cover letter said, amongst other things they are not appointing a party wall surveyor as they hope we will oblige to consent within a less formal notice!

If you aren't happy signing it then refuse to do so and write back telling them that. Then they will have to pay for the surveyor(s) who is/are supposed to be impartial. Then as you are unsure about the whole thing then you will at least be getting 'professional' advice. It all depends on your relationship with your neighbour really, just a quick scan of the document suggests they might be sneaking in permission to build on your side, but hard to tell.

 

[lisap]

Thanks for the reply
We don't get on with them at all and for the 12 years we have lived here, one of the main issue that has caused break down in communication, is the boundary line. We feel they are sneaking something in too. On original plans it said eccentric foundations, this say protruding footings. the eccentric foundations was 'sold' to us as not cause any damaged to our property and now the plans are passed the term 'protruding footings' has been used, which to me means they are going to cause issues with our patio. There is no address of anyone to speak to only the neighbour, is this normal? is it the person that drew the plans that initiates this party wall agreement bit or someone else?

 

[Jackrae]

If you're not happy and they are intending ignoring the original agreement of "eccentric foundation" then tell them to b**ger off. It's their problem, not yours.
Promising to sort out any future problem is as good as saying the cheque is in the post. However if they wish to deposit say £10,000 into your account in trust for any future damages works then fair enough !

 

[lisap]

If you're not happy and they are intending ignoring the original agreement of "eccentric foundation" then tell them to b**ger off. It's their problem, not yours.
Promising to sort out any future problem is as good as saying the cheque is in the post. However if they wish to deposit say £10,000 into your account in trust for any future damages works then fair enough !

Mmmm not sure that will happen but i could try then put it into ISA's before I have to give it back! lol

 

[tony1851]

I suspect the neighbours have the right to project a plain concrete footing beyond the boundary line, though they need to keep the wall face itself at or on their side of the boundary.
This would project no more than about 6" beyond the boundary line and, being underground, would not necessarily affect your property.
Why not agree to it, on the understanding that if and when you build a similar rear extension, you could use their wall as a party wall? If they won't agree to that, then tell them you want a party wall surveyor - this will cost them quite a bit and they may then have second thoughts.
Get anything in writing, and don't sign anything unless you are completely happy with it.

 

[JohnD]

You are entitled to appoint your own Party Wall Surveyor at the neighbour's expense.

I would do that, then you can rely on him to have your best interests at heart.

I agree with not signing the document they have cooked up.

Not sure how you go about finding a good surveyor; if you know anyone in the building or estate agency businesses perhaps they will know someone local.

 

[lisap]

I suspect the neighbours have the right to project a plain concrete footing beyond the boundary line, though they need to keep the wall face itself at or on their side of the boundary.
This would project no more than about 6" beyond the boundary line and, being underground, would not necessarily affect your property.
Why not agree to it, on the understanding that if and when you build a similar rear extension, you could use their wall as a party wall? If they won't agree to that, then tell them you want a party wall surveyor - this will cost them quite a bit and they may then have second thoughts.
Get anything in writing, and don't sign anything unless you are completely happy with it.

The intial plans said they were eccentric foundations which do not not have an 'overhang' so its seems they have decided to change that. Can they do that? (as this was a point the planners sorted to pass the project on) We feel they have tried to craftily put it in by saying 'nothing has changed from the orignal plans' and 'just sign the forms and hand us a copy and you keep a copy'! We dont trust them so do think its right to find independent surveyor. I actually think they are trying to save money by not appointing one but, as we have always had issues with the boundary( and have never resolved any issues!), we wouldnt have expected them not to have an 'adjudicator!
We already have an extension but ours is set in from the party wall, as are all the extensions in the houses in the street. This was not seen as an issue for the planners to consider.

 

[Jackrae]

If you really want to get picky with them you need to look at whether or not they have a rainwater gutter on the ede of the building set on the boundary wall. If they have then it is over your property, for which they have not right. If it does overhang, then insist it's removed and if necessary the building altered to suit, so's rainwater does not fall from their roof onto your property. This very point happened to my daughter who had similar problems with a neighbour. They had to alter wall design to prevent an over-hanging gutter.

 

[^woody^]

The neighbour either has planning permission or is building under permitted development, so the thing is going to be built, and there is no escaping that.

The building regulations are not up for debate either, so the mention of eccentric foundations is irrelevant

On this basis, the the only issue is to try and make the best of how the extension will be built - ie have some control over access, working times and ensuring any damage is made good. This is where the Party Wall Act comes in.

The PWA will not deal with boundary issues or anything else, except the way the thing is built

The neighbour may well want access to the neighbouring land for working on or scaffold etc, and by following the PWA, he can do this. The PWA will also let him put foundations across the boundary. There is little you can do to stop this. So it is in your interest to use the PWA to get as good a job done in terms of appearance, with minimal disruption

As for his letter, that is a formal notice of work under the PWA. If you do not reply by the due date, then a dispute is automatically deemed, and so the next stage is appointment of surveyors to administer the Act.

However, you may want to actually acknowledge receipt of the notice, and formally state that you do not agree and require the appointment of surveyors. You then decide if you want to use a single surveyor or want to use a different one to the neighbour.

Bear in mind that the surveyor does not work for you, but works for the Act, so don't think that using a different one to the neighbour will get you anything better than a joint surveyor

The neighbour will normally pay all fees, unless you act unreasonably or want work doing outside of the PWA, in which case you may have to pay a portion.

 

[lisap]

Thanks! We are writting to say we dont think it will be right to appoint himself as the impartial surveyor and then asking for clarification on the other issues.
So if the planning report states thing can they then do different things?? Its so stressful!! I need to be married to someone in the know!

 

[noseall]

All this talk about the foundations crossing the boundary is fine but what about the eaves overhang which could be a nuisance?

They need to be building say 225mm within their own boundary or at least account for any above ground overhang issues.

 

[chapeau]

Thanks! We are writting to say we dont think it will be right to appoint himself as the impartial surveyor and then asking for clarification on the other issues.
So if the planning report states thing can they then do different things?? Its so stressful!! I need to be married to someone in the know!

He cannot "appoint himself" or anybody with an interest.

It sounds like you need to object to his proposals (in writing, quickly) and tell him you will be getting your own surveyor and that he should appoint one of his own. He will be responsible to pay for it all. Just a really short letter is all you need, don't put anything it these letters that you don't need to. Let somebody else deal with the detail.

You have found this web site, there are plenty of others which deal with this. Here is what the guvmint says

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_partywall_explain_booklet.pdf

 

[lisap]

Thanks! We are writting to say we dont think it will be right to appoint himself as the impartial surveyor and then asking for clarification on the other issues.
So if the planning report states thing can they then do different things?? Its so stressful!! I need to be married to someone in the know!

He cannot "appoint himself" or anybody with an interest.

It sounds like you need to object to his proposals (in writing, quickly) and tell him you will be getting your own surveyor and that he should appoint one of his own. He will be responsible to pay for it all. Just a really short letter is all you need, don't put anything it these letters that you don't need to. Let somebody else deal with the detail.

You have found this web site, there are plenty of others which deal with this. Here is what the guvmint says

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_partywall_explain_booklet.pdf[/QUOTE]
Thanks. we did write a short letter saying, due to past experience with boundary disputes and the fact we never agree, we feel it necessary to have an independent surveyor. We then added a few queries. One being that the planning form said eccentric foundations and the line of junction said protruding foundations. The neighbour didn't even know the different types of foundations so we had to explain them to him!!! I cant believe he wanted to be the impartial surveyor when he hasn't got, or didn't even look up on the internet, the basics before!!! We have learnt so much from looking on the internet, just in the last few days. We never get involved in anything unless we have the facts, it unbelievable that others don't do this

BIG BIG THANKS TO ALL ON HERE. I have used this site for a few years now. I hate confrontation and suffer from stress, but always know there are people on here that can help me a bit. It doesnt take away the stress but it does act a bit like a plaster.