Load shedding by Smart Meters

[bernardgreen]

.Talking to a UK DNO engineer yesterday I discover that selective shedding of loads such as domestic airconditioning during peak periods / overload periods is possible ( or already happening ) in parts of Australia by smart meters responding to commands from the local supply network control room.

I wasn't too sure that his information was accurate ( he has worked for some years in Australia )

This manufacturer's website does add some credence to what he was saying

Obviously some re-wiring of consumer units in the UK would be necessary but this was already the cse with Economy Seven and similar where Off Peak circuits were switched ON and OFF by the DNO's time switch.

 

[JP_]

Interesting, and starts to make some sense. The cost of installing smart meters cannot possibly be offset by the savings of not having so many employees reading meters - most people read their own meter. don't they? Maybe a desire to move everybody onto a Economy 7 format, which means much bigger bills for most people.

 

[donrkebab]

Its hardly news is it. That has always been the only reason for smart meters, to penalise consumers due to inadequate power availability on the National Grid.
And how long will it take to get your meter switched back on in the event of it being accidently switched OFF.

 

[bernardgreen]

Its hardly news is it.

If it is factually correct then the advertising / promotional activity for smart meters to be fitted should include this information as it may came as news to many people only if ( when ) it happens in the UK,

 

[EFLImpudence]

The cost of installing smart meters cannot possibly be offset by the savings of not having so many employees reading meters

The customer is paying for them through higher bills by order of the Government.

 

[JP_]

Exactly. My bills dropped again with Bulb. Happy to read those meters myself and pay less!

 

[donrkebab]

The customer is paying for them through higher bills by order of the Government.

And the suppliers will make an estimated £300,000,000 increase in profits due to staff cuts. Many of whom are low skilled and will end up on the dole, and we will pay for them as well.

 

[big-all]

the meters can only measure flow so they would have to be able measure individual circuits
so they would have to be " a smart meter" rather than a crude remote energy moniterng off switch as they are now

 

[crystal ball]

Nothing new there, I worked in Zimbabwe in the early 90s, most domestic properties were fitted with control relays that switched immersion heaters off using a HF signal from the network control room

 

[donrkebab]

the meters can only measure flow so they would have to be able measure individual circuits
so they would have to be " a smart meter" rather than a crude remote energy moniterng off switch as they are now

They don't have monitor individual circuits, load profiling would show a "continuous" increased load, in Australia that can only mean Air conditioning. In the UK it would mean electric heating. And they wouldn't switch a customer OFF, the control would be via punitive tarriffs. It could be related to outside air temperature, in oz a high temp would mean high a/c use, so wack up the cost to deter a/c use. In the UK it would be related to low air temperature.

 

[JohnW2]

Its hardly news is it. That has always been the only reason for smart meters, to penalise consumers due to inadequate power availability on the National Grid.

I think that two very different things are being discussed here, neither of which really have much to do with 'smart' meters ...

Firstly, there is "TOU Billing" (as mentioned in the quote in the OP), which allows different prices at different times of day, with "consumers being penalised" (by high prices) for using electricity at peak times of day - in the hope that will change their usage patterns. That would already be possible with my current non-'smart' meter - although only two of them are currently used (for my E7 supply - which is a simple case of TOU billing), the meter has a dozen or so TOU registers, and I imagine that is true of most electronic meters (whether 'smart' or not'). The only advantage that a smart meter might theoretically offer is the ability to remotely alter the timings of the registers, but I doubt that would be necessary (or even practical, in anything approaching real-time).

Secondly, there is the remote selective "shedding of loads", much feared by some of the 'anti-smart meter camp'. A 'smart' meter does not allow that to be done - the only 'switching' it can do is to turn off the entire supply. For the supplier to remotely and selectively turn off individual loads requires either that we have 'smart appliances' (none of which, to the best of my knowledge, yet even exist in the UK) and/or that all premises should acquire what would effectively be 'smart CUs', which would allow remote switching of individual circuits (with relays/contactors) - and which would have to be 'sealed' to prevent 'tampering'. None of that would require a smart meter, per se, and none of it is going to happen (at least, to any significant extent) in my lifetime - nor, I doubt, the lifetimes of (m)any people reading this. I also wonder where there is any hope that the communications networks would be able to cope with doing such things, in real time, for tens of millions of consumers.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jj4091]

I heard of yet another scam involving smart meters today, our local DNO are installing smart meters in blocks of rented flats & telling owners that the supply which has been fine for the last 30 years is under rated & cutting off some of the flats to reduce the load on the incoming cables. I appreciate they are probably right but why has it suddenly become a problem at smart meter installation & not at meter changes in past years.Seems to me that they are just trying to make money--£15k for an upgraded supply.

 

[JohnW2]

I heard of yet another scam involving smart meters today, our local DNO are installing smart meters in blocks of rented flats & telling owners that the supply which has been fine for the last 30 years is under rated & cutting off some of the flats to reduce the load on the incoming cables. I appreciate they are probably right but why has it suddenly become a problem at smart meter installation & not at meter changes in past years.Seems to me that they are just trying to make money--£15k for an upgraded supply.

None of that makes much sense - DNOs do not install meters, 'smart' or otherwise - and those (suppliers, or their agents) who do install meters (including 'smart' ones) know nothing about the adequacy of the (DNO's) incoming supply cables.

I suspect that something got lost in translation of that story!

Kind Regards, John

 

[mattylad]

Maybe they will start using smart electricity too, so at certain times that smart heating electricity will not be available so your heaters will not work
(Assuming that you also bought the smart heating package that came with a deal, cheap running during summer and you freeze in winter).

 

[jj4091]

None of that makes much sense - DNOs do not install meters, 'smart' or otherwise - and those (suppliers, or their agents) who do install meters (including 'smart' ones) know nothing about the adequacy of the (DNO's) incoming supply cables.

I suspect that something got lost in translation of that story!

Kind Regards, John

Good point which I never thought about, I'll have to make further enquiries about that.