Not the essential items, no - but they might delay their car recharging, washing and drying to a more cost favourable period.
Load shedding by Smart Meters
- Thread starter bernardgreen
- Start date
I was thinking more in terms of the supplier programming the smart meter to signal devices to run during the off-peak periods which would be of variable time and duration. As I understand it, at least with a teleswitch, a typical E7 tariff only guarantees you a minimum or 7 hours at cheap rate overnight - but not the timing of it, or even if it's in one period. But since the meter provides a signal to say when the meter is on cheap rate, that is not really a problem for many loads.
Which is presumably why our joined up PTB is suggesting it
(that's sarcasm in case anyone doesn't get that) Not to mention the problems likely to arise when neighbours run such appliances above your bedroom in flats 
..
... but then we'd be back to needing 'smart appliances', or 'smart boxes' to control regular appliances.
I've never had a teleswitch, so have no idea how they do things (and it may well vary between suppliers, anyway). However, I've had E7 for well over 30 years, and the cheap-rate periods have always been fixed ('guaranteed') and hence predictable. When (many years ago now) my E7 system ran off an electro-mechanical time-switch, the cheap rate period was always the same, the precise timing depending on how the clock had been set. Since I have had an electronic meter with built-in clock, the cheap-rate period has been (with two suppliers) been 'guaranteed to be 00:30 to 07:30 GMT every day.
Kind Regards, John
Teleswitches were very commonly fitted for quite a few years - the signal being transmitted from Droitwich*. Several benefits for the network operators - no time switches to keep correct, and the ability to switch groups of loads at different times depending on supply and demand balance. I recall reading a contract a while ago, and it was phrased along the lines of "7 hours cheap rate guaranteed between 11pm and 8am, in no more than 2 periods". Given the ability to switch loads via contacts in the meter, this doesn't seem to be an issue for many.
Where I last worked, on a few occasions we'd hear the contactors pull in for the night storage heaters. Either it was a fault (noise interpreted as an "on" command) or the system was being used to temporarily add demand to the system for balancing purposes - which I believe was/is sometimes done.
I can see that something similar is likely to happen when "smart" meters are ubiquitous, probably in addition to just having "smart" appliances switching according to price.
And yes, pretty well all of these methods (with "smart" meters) rely on "smart" appliances or load switchesgetting information/commands from the meter.
* As an aside, the radio teleswitch system was supposed to have been stopped some years ago - but given teh scale of work to visit possibly millions of premises to replace the switch with something else, it hasn't happened. The BBC have said that when the BBC4 LW transmitter breaks down, it won't be repaired and they'll just decommission the transmitter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droitwich_Transmitting_Station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_teleswitch
The BBC may have said that once. But the BBC have not owned any transmitters since they were sold off around 20 years ago so it will not be up to them what happens when it breaks down.
The BBC send the signals including teleswitching, but they still don’t own the transmitter.
Maybe they don't own them, but if they have just negotiated a contract to continue providing the service until at least Match 2021, they presumably must be confident that whoever owns the equipment will keep it in working order until at least then.
As for how the equipment will/would/could be kept going, the argument about poor availability of the final stage valves ('only 10 left in the world') is a bit pathetic - bespoke replacements could be manufactured or, more likely, the equipment modified to utilise 21st century technology.
Kind Regards, John
Indeed. New solid state LW transmitters have recently been installed elsewhere, though I can’t remember where, maybe Ireland or Algeria.
Indeed.
In fact, although it was not really possible with bipolar transistors (which generally require totally different circuitry), some of the variants of FETs around these days offer, in some cases, the possibility of changing from valves to solid state without much change of the circuitry. Over the years, I have done this with a few items of ancient valve-based equipment, in some cases even retaining the valve sockets and 'plugging in' FETs via 'valve bases'.
Whatever, even if one had to start from scratch, a solid state replacement for the Droitwich transmitter would clearly be very feasible (and probably not too expensive) if people put their mind to it. Whether there is an adequate 'perceived need' is, I suppose, a different matter!
Kind Regards, John
It will come down to "who will pay for it ?"
Arquiva may own it, but they will only run/maintain it if someone pays for it. We do not know what sort of contract is in place, whether Arquiva are responsible for keeping it running and build that into the price, or if the BBC would have to pay any big bills. The BBC have said they aren't bothered about ending R4 on LW.
But then it comes down to what the electricity industry will pay for - given that they are pretty well tied into the system for "a few years yet" given how slowly "smart" meters are rolling out. If the lecky industry will pay for it, I'm sure Arquiva will keep the transmitter going in some form - whether that's having new valves made, converting the transmitter, or just replacing it with a lower power transmitter just for the radio teleswitch service.
Arquiva may own it, but they will only run/maintain it if someone pays for it. We do not know what sort of contract is in place, whether Arquiva are responsible for keeping it running and build that into the price, or if the BBC would have to pay any big bills. The BBC have said they aren't bothered about ending R4 on LW.
But then it comes down to what the electricity industry will pay for - given that they are pretty well tied into the system for "a few years yet" given how slowly "smart" meters are rolling out. If the lecky industry will pay for it, I'm sure Arquiva will keep the transmitter going in some form - whether that's having new valves made, converting the transmitter, or just replacing it with a lower power transmitter just for the radio teleswitch service.
I have no idea of what the commercial arrangement was, but it would seem rather strange if the BBC 'sold' the transmitter and entered into a contract to continue using it, but retained responsibility for 'keeping it working'. Nor am I clear as to why anyone would have wanted to buy an obsolete piece of equipment in the last stages of its life. Was this perhaps just a ('trivial') "this too" part of a much larger sale/purchase deal?
Quite so. Particularly if the electricity industry were going to be paying, I would have thought that the cost would fade into total insignificance in comparison with such things as the cost of the 'smart' meter nonsense.
There is, of course, also the matter of the LW time signals transmitted by the Droitwich transmitter, and one imagines that there are probably also those with an interest in that service continuing - so the electricity industry may well not be the only 'interested party'.
Kind Regards, John
IIRC, the BBC offloaded (firstly into a subsidiary, then selling that off) all it's transmitters to Arquiva some years ago when it was decided that there was a conflict of interest with the BBC being both a program maker/channel provider and also running much of the transmitter estate carrying both the BBC and other providers' channels. Droitwich was "just one of many".
A year or two ago France radio decided they no longer wanted to broadcast on LW. But the Allouis transmitter on 162kHz also provided sync signals for railway station clocks throughout France. It was found the power could be substantially lowered without affecting the clocks. So that was done, the radio modulation turned off, and France radio no longer paid for it. It is still possible to tune in the silent carrier to this day.
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