Loft Extension , minor works certificate?

[minos26]

Hi,
I am about to have a loft conversion carried out on my house.
in my loft I have a lighting circuit feed and a 13a socket feed currently feeding arial booster via 13amp socket.

I work in industry as an electrician so am out of date with current domestic (part p)requirements although I have 16th edition all the work I do is control voltage 24v D.C.

Can I carry out the 1st and 2nd fixes in my conversion myself?

Can I carry out this work under a minor works certificate?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks and best regards.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi,
I am about to have a loft conversion carried out on my house.

So right from the off Building Control will have been involved, as you will have had to apply for approval.

in my loft I have a lighting circuit feed and a 13a socket feed currently feeding arial booster via 13amp socket.

Will a string of sockets from a 13A FCU be adequate for the loft? Wouldn't a dedicated circuit, or at least a proper extension of the existing socket circuit be more appropriate?

I work in industry as an electrician so am out of date with current domestic (part p)requirements

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part-p

although I have 16th edition all the work I do is control voltage 24v D.C.

So not desperately relevant.

Can I carry out the 1st and 2nd fixes in my conversion myself?

I don't know if you can, but you may do it. In fact you may do all yourself. The questions are though:

When you submitted your plans for approval, what did you say would be the way you would comply with Part P?

What is the attitude of your council to non-registered or non-qualified people doing electrical work? Legally it's allowed, and the onus is on the council to carry out any inspection & testing that they want done, but in practice many councils unlawfully refuse to do that, and when the work is part of a larger project with BCO involvement you may effectively be blackmailed and bullied into letting them get away with it.

Can I carry out this work under a minor works certificate?

1) See above re circuit design.

2) Do you feel that you are able to sign the declaration on a MWC?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

BAS, re planning permission, loft conversions.

This one has cropped up a couple of times recently, i'm not certain of the criteria, but looking up 'permitted development rights' might shed light on need for permission from BC in this situation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Planning permission has nothing to do with Building Regulations approval - different laws, different council departments, different rules governing when each is needed.

A loft conversion may well not need planning permission, but there is absolutely no way it can not need Building Regulations approval.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

You may be correct, i dont really know, but my thought is that if you don't need planning permission, then would building control even get involved?

The reason i say this is that (according to my neighbour, who has had a loft conversion without planning consent) there has been no intervention by BC, therefore no need for anyone to approve anything.

I would guess that the most likely problem that may occur, is if the work was done without regard for regulation, would be in the event of any kind of insurance claim in the future, insurance peeps may not pay out.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You may be correct,

I am - no question of it - there is a wealth of material out there explaining that the two things are completely separate. Here's one, for example: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115315235153.html

It works the other way too - in some places you need planning permission to put up a satellite dish, but you wouldn't need building regs approval.

It is never a case of "both or neither".

my thought is that if you don't need planning permission, then would building control even get involved?

They won't be involved if they aren't told about it, but not needing planning permission is not a valid reason for not telling them, and not needing planning permission does not mean that it's legal to do controlled work without approval.

The reason i say this is that (according to my neighbour, who has had a loft conversion without planning consent) there has been no intervention by BC, therefore no need for anyone to approve anything.

There was a need - your neighbour is a complete idiot.

I would guess that the most likely problem that may occur, is if the work was done without regard for regulation, would be in the event of any kind of insurance claim in the future, insurance peeps may not pay out.

There is no "may" about it, and nobody in their right mind will ever buy a house which has had a loft conversion done without proof that it complied with the regulations, unless the price is significantly reduced to allow for the cost of a full structural survey.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

You may be correct,

I am - no question of it -

LOL, an entirely predicatable response from someone with your level of communication

there is a wealth of material out there explaining that the two things are completely separate. Here's one, for example: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115315235153.html

It works the other way too - in some places you need planning permission to put up a satellite dish, but you wouldn't need building regs approval.

It is never a case of "both or neither".

my thought is that if you don't need planning permission, then would building control even get involved?

They won't be involved if they aren't told about it, but not needing planning permission is not a valid reason for not telling them, and not needing planning permission does not mean that it's legal to do controlled work without approval.

If they submit an outline plan over permitted development rights and the planning department agree that it is indeed permitted, then that is the end of the councils involvement, no subsequent BCO checks. Add that to the non-notifiable nature of extending existing circuits as described in the OP, then there will be no need to get any approval for the electrics.

The reason i say this is that (according to my neighbour, who has had a loft conversion without planning consent) there has been no intervention by BC, therefore no need for anyone to approve anything.
There was a need - your neighbour is a complete idiot.

agreed, do you know him? He's only 1 letter away from proper twit. This is the same guy who, two years ago, had the entire roof re felted and tiled. (approx 5k ) then has had loft converted earlier this summer. I could go on about them, and their 30 something year old virgin pony tailed IT Geek son. Do you remember the Munsters?

I would guess that the most likely problem that may occur, is if the work was done without regard for regulation, would be in the event of any kind of insurance claim in the future, insurance peeps may not pay out.

There is no "may" about it, and nobody in their right mind will ever buy a house which has had a loft conversion done without proof that it complied with the regulations, unless the price is significantly reduced to allow for the cost of a full structural survey.

Not true, that generalisation is far too sweeping. Many people, as this forum can prove, have not got the faintest idea about building regs/laws etc, etc. And when you attempt to enlighten them, it is usualyy met with a shrug of the shoulders.

In the eyes of the law, ignorance is not a defence, but in the real world, it happens every day, in abundance.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If they submit an outline plan over permitted development rights and the planning department agree that it is indeed permitted, then that is the end of the councils involvement, no subsequent BCO checks.

FGS - why don't you get it? How many times do I have to say it?

PLANNING PERMISSION AND BUILDING REGULATIONS APPROVAL ARE NOT RELATED. THEY ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS. NOT NEEDING PLANNING PERMISSION DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DO NOT NEED BUILDING REGULATIONS APPROVAL.



It's only the end of the council's involvement if you fail to involve them when you should.

Did you even bother to read that Planning Portal web page? I suppose you won't believe that either.

Many people, as this forum can prove, have not got the faintest idea about building regs/laws etc, etc. And when you attempt to enlighten them, it is usualyy met with a shrug of the shoulders.

You should know.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

oh dear, upset again.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Was that what you intended?

Were you pretending to be stupid, or is it for real?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

ah, very upset

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well - I'm glad at least one of us is amused by you over and over again effectively accusing me of lying, and refusing to look at or believe any evidence put in front of you.

Personally I think it makes you a complete ****.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

i feel that your response is totally disproportionate, rude and unnecessary.

My advice to you is to seek professional help and anger management training.




edited for spelling

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My advice to you is to stop telling people that they are lying, even when they have provided you with proof that they are not, if you don't want them to think you're a complete ****

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

tut tut.

I think your GP could give you a prescirption for lithium tablets, maybe that would help.