Loft Light

[bernardgreen]

Should a person going for a dinner party get food poisoning?
Should the householder have tested the food to standards?
Should the householder have to be qualifed chef to hold a dinner party?

How many people die from food poisoning vs DIY electrics? Should we make everyone do a chef course before they cook tea?

Death from food poisoning is very seldom immediate and early signs amd symptons mean the vast majority of the millions of food poisoning cases can be treated before death can take effect.

Electrocution damage is immediate

 

[FatGit]

Irrelvant to those who die from it, which is more than 10.
10 people die each year from dodgy home electrics. There are many more common causes of death in the home than that, and is it nonsense to say that you need to bring in a pro for everything.
BTW: By no means everyone who recieves an electric shock dies.

 

[ColJack]

the same thing goes for plumbing..

people are allowed to do the things that are not potentially lethal such as moving a radiator or changing a tap, but they are not allowed to pipe in a new gas fire or cooker, or move gas pipes etc..

Part P needs to be more cut and dry like the CORGI rules..

you can add or change lights, sockets and so on, but things like board changes and rewires should be ILLEGAL for DIYers to do..

Also, if you can't use non contact volt sticks to tell if a cable is live or not, then why do they make and sell them.. they don't work on DC so they're no good for cars etc...

as long as you can prove the thing works on a known supply and are thorough when using it and know it's limitations then why not..

 

[plugwash]

personally i've always thought rewires are easier to do right than modifications because you don't have to deal with the previous persons bodges/unconventional wiring.

I'd much rather have a DIY rewire with a few minor noncomplicances than old perishing rubber cables connected to slow blowing rewirable fuses.

 

[GaryMo]

Also, if you can't use non contact volt sticks to tell if a cable is live or not, then why do they make and sell them.. they don't work on DC so they're no good for cars etc...

as long as you can prove the thing works on a known supply and are thorough when using it and know it's limitations then why not..

Same goes for neon screwdrivers then, are they OK?
Also most multimeter's aren't up to standard having test leads which don't meet the requirements of GS38 but they're still sold.

 

[pbar]

you can add or change lights, sockets and so on, but things like board changes and rewires should be ILLEGAL for DIYers to do..

And then you electricians will be even more indispensible and can charge even higher rates as the home owner will have no option.
As long as the DIYer knows what they are doing, uses common sense and knows their limitations, there is nothing wrong in my opinion with tackling some electrical work, not everything of course. And safety has to be number one, goes without saying. Some DIYer's will bodge anything to get it working, yes, but so will some electricians. I know, I've had electricians working on my home who will never return, myself having to check their work afterwards and change it myself so it's right/better.
It's going to end up a nambypamby country if we're restricted from doing stuff more and more, imagine not be allowed to work on your own roof to fix broken tiles, can't do electrics, can't do plumbing, can't fix your own car, can't fix appliances, can't lay paving, can't do gardening, just imagine it! Electrics can be a serious danger yes, but as long as the DIYer takes care, common sense, and stays within their limitations, what's wrong with that? And don't say the DIYer can't test stuff properly, it's right they can't, but I've yet to see any electrician anywhere use test equipment to check work they've done, just connect it, it works, take payment and then go.
I get the impression that some electricians begrudge DIYer's doing stuff because they have had to go through all they go through to get Part P and pay for the privilege. And I can understand that to some degree. I can do any electrical work I want (almost) in my own home, and simply pay a small(ish) amount to building control to check it, and either ok it or tell me what I need to do to change it. Or, I can connect it, and if it works, forget it. And pay no one anything, as most DIYer's will do.
Having said that, a great many electricians are still not Part P, and are still allowed to do the work of course.
Part P is till a very grey area. Most home owners in the UK won't even know what it is, as I didn't until recently.

 

[FatGit]

I thought you could do gas work without CORGI as long as it was in your own home
Not that I would, as I don't believe I could do so safely - given how many leaks I get on plumbing fittings etc.

 

[pbar]

I thought you could do gas work without CORGI as long as it was in your own home
Not that I would, as I don't believe I could do so safely - given how many leaks I get on plumbing fittings etc.

I cannot be certain but I always thought you were not allowed to touch gas at all unless you're Corgi.

 

[scousespark]

As long as the DIYer knows what they are doing, uses common sense and knows their limitations, there is nothing wrong in my opinion with tackling some electrical work, not everything of course. And safety has to be number one, goes without saying.

Without the test kit and knowledge of how to use it how would you know your rewire/board change was afe?

Some DIYer's will bodge anything to get it working, yes, but so will some electricians. I know, I've had electricians working on my home who will never return, myself having to check their work afterwards and change it myself so it's right/better.

How would you know your work is right/better than the electrician's.

Electrics can be a serious danger yes, but as long as the DIYer takes care, common sense, and stays within their limitations, what's wrong with that? And don't say the DIYer can't test stuff properly, it's right they can't, but I've yet to see any electrician anywhere use test equipment to check work they've done, just connect it, it works, take payment and then go.

They aren't electricians pbar. they are cowboys.

 

[pbar]

As long as the DIYer knows what they are doing, uses common sense and knows their limitations, there is nothing wrong in my opinion with tackling some electrical work, not everything of course. And safety has to be number one, goes without saying.

Without the test kit and knowledge of how to use it how would you know your rewire/board change was afe?

Some DIYer's will bodge anything to get it working, yes, but so will some electricians. I know, I've had electricians working on my home who will never return, myself having to check their work afterwards and change it myself so it's right/better.

How would you know your work is right/better than the electrician's.

Electrics can be a serious danger yes, but as long as the DIYer takes care, common sense, and stays within their limitations, what's wrong with that? And don't say the DIYer can't test stuff properly, it's right they can't, but I've yet to see any electrician anywhere use test equipment to check work they've done, just connect it, it works, take payment and then go.

They aren't electricians pbar. they are cowboys.

I doubt I would tackle a complete re-wire, but if I did I would get someone to test it properly for me. My neighbour had a re-wire, and no test equipment was used. He was one of the connect it up, it works, collect money and go electricians, of which there seems to be many.

An instance of my work being better than an electrician I had - one guy cut a cable too short (a new cable, in my extension being built) to reach the socket. So he taped it to another cable so it would reach and shoved it behind the plasterboard so it wouldn't be noticed. If I hadn't of checked it, it would still be there, working for now. I changed the whole cable, proper cable run taking note of safe zones, clipped to the wall, all as it should be. And checked by building control.

I think the term electrician has many variants and standard of workmanship. Yes, I agree, many are cowboys.

 

[FatGit]

I thought you could do gas work without CORGI as long as it was in your own home
Not that I would, as I don't believe I could do so safely - given how many leaks I get on plumbing fittings etc.

I cannot be certain but I always thought you were not allowed to touch gas at all unless you're Corgi.

I've looked into it a bit more.
There is no formal requirment to be CORGI, unless you are working for reward (ie non-DIY). However, you must be competent. How you assess competence is a matter for debate. CORGI is one way. Another might be to do, say, City and Guilds, even if you aren't CORGI.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/disdocs/dde14b.pdf (page 6)

 

[pbar]

I thought you could do gas work without CORGI as long as it was in your own home
Not that I would, as I don't believe I could do so safely - given how many leaks I get on plumbing fittings etc.

I cannot be certain but I always thought you were not allowed to touch gas at all unless you're Corgi.

I've looked into it a bit more.
There is no formal requirment to be CORGI, unless you are working for reward (ie non-DIY). However, you must be competent. How you assess competence is a matter for debate. CORGI is one way. Another might be to do, say, City and Guilds, even if you aren't CORGI.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/disdocs/dde14b.pdf (page 6)

I don't think you actually have to be Corgi to do gas pipe work, I think you're right. But it has to be checked and 'supervised' by someone who is.

 

[ColJack]

I cannot be certain but I always thought you were not allowed to touch gas at all unless you're Corgi.

so then what is your objection to the dangerous parts of electrics ( such as board changes, work in locations with water in them etc. ) being "Part P only" jobs?

 

[FatGit]

But you don't have to be CORGI to do DIY gas, but you have to show competence. How you show this is another matter.
I suppose that one way of showing competence at electrics would be to do a good job. Another would be to do something like City and Guilds.

 

[IJWS15]

I found another instance of why "professionals" should NOT have a monopoly yesterday!

Replaced three white downlighters with chrome in my daughters new build flat. On doing so realised that something was missing from each of the three white downlighters - something I will be raising with the site manager when I next speak to him. Will post a picture when I get chance but until then there is a prize for anyone who can guess what was missing!

And yes the flat came with a test certificate!

b****y pros!