made a mess of electrics...urgently need help :(

[k3z]

Hi,I have a light switch in my kitchen which is a double switch.One switch operates the light in the kitchen,the other the dining room.I have gone to fit a single switch as i only want the dining room light to operate from the other side of the room (that is where the other switch to dining room is situated.The wiring came out as 2 reds and 2 blacks.I went to fit a single switch and realised that there is only a space for 1 black and 1 red.I know,should have realised this before i removed it all.What do i need to do to put it right...i did try to put the original double switch back on,but now i have no lights at all..as it says 2 way and 1 way and i dont know where to put the wires.
As i do not make mistakes in halves,to make matters worse,while all the electric was off,i removed the ceiling rose in the dining room as i wanted to put a new one up.(the other was all broken up.The new ceiling rose has 3 connecter blocks to left (live),3 blocks to the right (neutral)....i have four wires that came out of the rose(this does not include light fitting) i have 1 red,1 grey,1 green and 1 black.What do i do to put it right?
Please dont anyone say "get an electrician" as i am willing to try to do anything myself...sometimes i even learn from my mistakes
any help,much appreciated,
best wishes to all,kez..x

 

[equitum]

Does your idea of "learning from mistakes" include electricution or burning the house down ? I know its a DIY site but you can't learn much when you are dead.

 

[k3z]

Does your idea of "learning from mistakes" include electricution or burning the house down ? I know its a DIY site but you can't learn much when you are dead.

Isnt really the answer i was looking for,but thanks anyway

 

[JohnD]

It crops up often

Have you got a Multimeter? If not go up to the high street and buy one. It will cost you about £10. by the time you come back I will probably have found the instructions for identifying the cables in your ceiling rose. The switch will then be easy.

You will also need some red plastic sleeving which they should sell on the Electrical Bits counter, otherwise some red vinyl tape; and some white vinyl tape, and a fine-tip permanent marking pen. And a 5Amp or 6Amp plastic connector strip (chock-block). You will also need a small and a medium flat-ended electrician's screwdriver (preferably insulated. They sometimes come with red and yellow striped handles and may be cheaper in sets)

Also, buy some Green and Yellow sleeving if you can see any bare earth wires in the switch or rose.

 

[JohnD]

here we are... do this and come back if you get stuck.

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=677671#677671

 

[k3z]

It crops up often

Have you got a Multimeter? If not go up to the high street and buy one. It will cost you about £10. by the time you come back I will probably have found the instructions for identifying the cables in your ceiling rose. The switch will then be easy.

You will also need some red plastic sleeving which they should sell on the Electrical Bits counter, otherwise some red vinyl tape; and some white vinyl tape, and a fine-tip permanent marking pen. And a 5Amp or 6Amp plastic connector strip (chock-block). You will also need a small and a medium flat-ended electrician's screwdriver (preferably insulated. They sometimes come with red and yellow striped handles and may be cheaper in sets)

Also, buy some Green and Yellow sleeving if you can see any bare earth wires in the switch or rose.

thank you for the help John.before i go off to diy store,can i email you the pics i have taken of the switches and ceiling rose?(just to make sure i have explained it right what i am trying to do)thanks,kez.

 

[JohnD]

No, post them on here via Photobucket. But I don't think the photos will make any difference to the advice.


//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=99672

BTW you can reply using the

button


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[Space cat]

Let's start with the switch. This was a double switch. One controlled a single light and the other was part of a two way circuit for a different light. Apart from earths, there are only four wires in the box. Correct so far? I can see only one way that this could have worked and it would have needed a short link wire between two of the switch terminals. Was there one?

If all of this is correct, one of those wires - let's hope it's a red one - is permanent live and the black in the same cable is switched live for your kitchen light. The remaining two cores are part of the old fashioned type of two-way wiring and they go to the other dining room light switch. Here's how you get your kitchen light back:

Pick a red; any one. Can you identify the black from the same cable? Connect these two to the switch and isolate the others in choc block. Does the light work? No! Try the other pair. If you can't see the ends of the cable insulation you'll have four combinations to try out - and the switch should be re-wired!!

To make your other light work, connect the second red into the same terminal as the first red and leave the black isolated. This will give you the permanent live you need at the other switch. There is no real need to change any wiring in the other switch but removing and isolating the black wire will avoid confusion later. NB: If there are two black wires in there, remove the one that isn't in the COM terminal! If the switch works upside down, move the red wire to the terminal vacated by black - but of course you won't know whether it's upside down or not. Your light is in pieces!

I'll be back!

 

[Space cat]

i have 1 red,1 grey,1 green and 1 black

I'm back. Are all those cores in the same cable?

 

[k3z]

Thank you JohnD and spacecat,
Oops,your right about me missing a wire space cat.I have found a short piece of red wire which must have been on the double switch.I have now photographed the items,please see below

this is the double switch that i want to take off so i can just have a single switch to control the kitchen light
http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff190/k3zza_2007/?action=view&current=doubleswitch.jpg

this is the single switch that i wanted to fit (but only have 4 wires to put into 3 holes) http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff190/k3zza_2007/?action=view&current=singleswitch.jpg

this is the ceiling rose and the four wires that are coming out of ceiling
http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff190/k3zza_2007/?action=view&current=ceilingrose.jpg

Im not going to attempt anything else tonight as I dont want to start messing about in the dark.Any advice on which bit to try to sort out first?
many thanks,kez...x

 

[JohnD]

the ceiling rose
let's have a wider view showing the cable approaching it

if you pull back that green sleeving, what's under it?

 

[k3z]

will go and take another pic now.brb,thanks

 

[Steve]

EDIT: before reading the below, we need to know how that ceiling rose is wired. It doesn't look right.

Where was the link? And that switch wouldn't have worked wired like that (I think) anyway, even with the link.

What you have there is ONE live feed. This is likely to be one of the reds.

One of the blacks (with the red wire above) is the switched live feed to your kitchen light.

These 2 need to be connected to your new switch, in Com and L1, either way around.

The other red and black pair to the other switch - connect ONE of these to the permenant live feed in the switch. The other wire, terminate in a piece of spare terminal block.

This SHOULD work. You cant really go wrong anyway, when you've found the permenant live wire.

 

[k3z]

here is a better pic of ceiling rose

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff190/k3zza_2007/ceilingrose2.jpg

 

[Steve]

here is a better pic of ceiling rose

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff190/k3zza_2007/ceilingrose2.jpg[/QUOTE]
Was it always like this? Where did your light fitting connect to it?