Magic cable ?

my suspicion is that the coupling is capacitive which does not need a current flowing to a load to place a current on a parallel wire

one thing you have to remember is that neon screwdrivers and digital multi meters are extremely high impedence and so it doesn't take much to make them register.
 
Actually the impedance of a modern digital voltmeter, at 10 or 20 megohms, and the impedance of the body that allows the neon screwdriver to light is moderately similar. When floating in free space the capcitance to ground of a typical adult is 500-1200pF depending on the size of the beer gut, and therefore about 2 to 5 megohms at 50Hz *. Therefore you can light your neon screwdriver** even when insulated.
You can also make your multimeter read (a random reading) if you connect one side to live, and hold the other. Changing body shape will affect the capacitance, and so the reading.
Neither is reliable when used in this way, except to say something nearby is live. ***

regards M.

* a theoretical construct, but up a set of insulating steps, wearing dry clothes comes close enough. Xj=1/(2.pi F.C)

**dimly, strikes at 90V, and stays lit if ~>20uA flows, but would get brighter and brighter upto about 1mA whence it overheats and cracks if current is continuous. Thats why you need the resistor to limit things, in the screwdriver, in case the human is wet and or very well earthed.
** unless thats all you needed to know!
 
Mike

(humour on)

I think this very advanced technical stuff is very inappropriate for this Forum :lol: :lol: :lol: please repost on the Screwfix boards for a truly appreciative audience :) :) :)

(humour off)
 
Oh, I dont see why not - the "why is my floating cable live ?" was incorrectly answered even by some MIEEs on the IEE forum a few weeks ago, in relation to lamp flicker. There are many here who will understand, and even for those that don't fully, they are made aware that its not a totally simple subject, and there is more to read up on...
M.

PS
I case anyone asks, yes I do have neon screwdriver, but I also have a multimeter, and a scope, and earth loop tester and a whole host of other stuff, and I like to know whats inside and how it works, at least in outline, before I use it.
The choice of what to use is fitness for purpose.
 
ban-all-sheds said:
And your point is?
ban-all-sheds said:
I'd believe an induced voltage, but I'd love to see you measure current flowing in an unconnected cable.

You can only find a voltage by measurement. To measure voltage you do so by measuring the current (through a high value resistor).
 
Yes, and the original poster was claiming he had current flowing in an unconnected cable.....
 
[start of marginal, possibly off topic post]

At the risk of being shouted off, although I am sure this is NOT what is happening here, in certain conditions significant current can be induced in a fully floating cable or metalwork.

Consider for a first example the currents flowing in the parasitic elements in a TV antenna. No connection to either end, but current flows, and removing them alters the antennas performance somewhat!!
Also note that a wire going to earth at one end, will not appear conncted to earth at frequencies where it is a significant fraction of a wave long,
which for mosy houses (10s of metres of wire) is a few MHz.

This is also why power only electricians should only be allowed near the earth wires on a radio transmitter with a helping hand !

Actually it is something slightly dear to me, and ~55,000 others in the UK, as the holder of an Amateur radio licence, that (after passing an exam to show competance) we are allowed to design, build and use transmitting equipment of a few hundred watts, on internationally agreed frequencies for the purposes of self education and training.
Amusingly, if on reads the letter of the latest rules, we can still do all of this except the running af a feeder cable to an antenna at the bottom of the garden (which from an interference point of view to selves and neighbours is by far the best place for it.)

By transmitting indoors, it certainly is possible to induce voltages large enough to light lamps remotely if the wiring accidentally forms a tuned antenna - with the UK tendancy to do loop-in lighting, where live and neutral part company for several metres, this is surprisingly easy, although undesirable, as it represents energy not properly radiated, and also in reverse means that interference on the mains couples into the receiving equipment....

[end of borderline off-topic posting]
M.
 
ban-all-sheds said:
Yes, and the original poster was claiming he had current flowing in an unconnected cable.....

It wasn't unconnected. It was connected through its capacitance.
 
(sarcastic git mode on)

When I said magic cable i was merely referencing my amazement at seeing the 'pinnochio emulating plastic moulded neon impregnated diy test prod' light up. I came here for an answer and maybe constructive opinions as I like to learn from forums and not just take an answer and run off.

I give out an enormous amount of I.T. advice on other forums but never talk down to people, especially if they are willing to learn.

Interesting that I spoke to a qualified electrician today and he knew nothing of said subject, maybe because he has never used a 'wavering wickes wallydriver before'.

(slightly pi55ed off mode off)
 

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