Main Stream Black Out.

Patience is a virtue.
2018
Now I think you owe me an apology
I'll apologise when I decide I am wrong, not on some flimsy evidence. Apart from that, I'll decide if and what I have done that deserves an apology.
John was obviously referring to an incident that happened two years previously. An incident that involved two Polish men and a gang of about twenty youths.
One of the Polish men died of their injuries. I don't believe any of the youths suffered any injuries, but I don't recall and haven't followed the story.
I do recall there was some racist abuse.
I see nothing wrong so far with his reference to a racist incident.
 
Sponsored Links
Does that mean we shouldn't respond to you? You've had a high old time of it tonight, dishing out the abuse. Time you stopped being a hypocrite while playing the victim.
Perhaps you can offer an explanation why notch and transam are allowed to exude a vitriolic stream of constant abuse without moderation.
I have a good explanation, but I had better keep it to myself in case I upset anyone.
 
Perhaps you can offer an explanation why notch and transam are allowed to exude a vitriolic stream of constant abuse without moderation.
I have a good explanation, but I had better keep it to myself in case I upset anyone.
Being a victim again hey? It's tough being you isn't it?

I'd like to know how you, who has been banned so many times, is allowed to keep coming back to spew the same nonsense and stir it up til thread after thread is locked or deleted.
 
In cats or other animals we use the term breed.
Exactly.

But just like shire horses, race horses, they are all horses.
Of course and the different 'types' of people are all people.
No one is disputing that. Why did you have to say it?

We don't use the term breed for humans,
Why not? No, I mean why don't we?
You, though, appear to accept that it is the equivalent of 'types'.

We used to, though.
As I said a while ago, when I was young people with parents of different 'types' were called half-breeds.
This became unacceptable (as normal words do) and was replaced with 'mixed-race'.
Therefore, we can accept that in normal usage, whether scientifically accurate or not, 'race' was a substitute for 'breed'.

As such 'racism' is prejudice against someone solely on the grounds that they are of a different 'race' - meaning 'breed'.

On the subject of scientifically, you said that there were chimpanzees of different races which had a 0.3% difference in genes but people of different 'types' had less than 0.1% and this was not enough to be a different race. I don't know if that is true or who decides that but as it is the sole determinator of the 'types' of people regardless of nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. then whether that results in actual races or it is just a name used for the 'types' is immaterial.

You also said that different races of species could not breed. This is not true with the Chimpanzees.

they are all humans, we use the term ethinicities, nationalities, etc.
...but they are separate things unrelated to the 'types'.
As with the cats, one is Persian and one is Siamese, (albeit names of countries but that is not relevant) it is nothing to do with their nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. It does not matter where they are born or how they are brought up, the 'types' will still be the same.
(Of course, cats, being able to think for themselves, have no need for religion.)

People of different 'types' can have the same nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. so those things might not be the reason for the prejudice.
It might be something else. What could it be?

Some might use the term race, but in the socially constructed concept of race.
Or not. They might use it in a way everyone understands.

Some might try to argue that Darwin's Victorian, outdated, scientifically dis-proven concept of race still holds true. But they are usually the older generation who are clinging to such outdated concepts to justify their racist ideology.
That is nonsense. I have no prejudice against any breed of cat nor 'type' of people.
As you and Bas are saying, the meaning of words changes therefore it could have changed to mean what I (and the general population) think it is, not your definition.

Please stop saying that disagreement on a meaning of a word means that someone is that word. It is nonsense.


The word 'race' cannot, does not and does not need to, mean nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. as well. We have words for those things.
 
Sponsored Links
I'm waiting
You do realise the kind of thug that was found guilty of manslaughter.

Patrick Upward, [the defending solicitor] mitigating, said: “The deceased and his companion, according to the witnesses called by the prosecution, were staggering from drink; they made racist remarks; they invited violence from those youngsters; and they were considerably bigger and stronger than the young people involved.​

“It was after the deceased pushed one of the youngsters that this defendant did what he did and that presents a rather different picture from the hullabaloo that [subsequently] arose after this incident took place.”​

The court heard the defendant had two previous convictions, one for possessing half a knuckleduster and the other for threatening behaviour, and was on bail for a separate matter at the time of the attack.
from your Guardian link​
Not really a pillar of the community was he. We have no idea what had gone on previously.

Subsequent news report a year later:
Arkadiusz Jozwik, 40, was attacked near a row of takeaway shops in Harlow, Essex, on 27 August 2016. He died in hospital two days later.
A 16-year-old boy - who was 15 at the time and cannot be named for legal reasons - denies manslaughter.
Chelmsford Crown Court heard he had used "the whole force of his body" to hit Mr Jozwik. The trial continues.
"However, we say he moved deliberately around the back of Mr Jozwik to take him by surprise and to hit him from behind.
She said two boys cycled close to the men, which "seemed to spark a disagreement" between the two groups.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-40718651
 
Perhaps you can offer an explanation why notch and transam are allowed to exude a vitriolic stream of constant abuse without moderation.
I have a good explanation, but I had better keep it to myself in case I upset anyone.

You have a vivid imagination, where is this vitriolic abuse......it doesnt exist.
 
Oh, so when you say "a moment" you mean "a few days"

Just a little bit longer that it took the Islamophobes to starting spewing their hateful bile again

Was that something you didn't notice?
Sure, go ahead. If you think trying to justify what you said is ok because other people said something horrible, then carry on.

Two expressions for you.

'Keep the moral high ground'
and..
'two wrongs don't make a right'.
 
You have a vivid imagination, where is this vitriolic abuse......it doesnt exist.
Anything that is unfavourable towards him, no matter how small is 'vitriolic abuse'. Anything he dishes out to others isn't, such is Himmy logic.
Simples!
 
You do realise the kind of thug that was found guilty of manslaughter.

Patrick Upward, [the defending solicitor] mitigating, said: “The deceased and his companion, according to the witnesses called by the prosecution, were staggering from drink; they made racist remarks; they invited violence from those youngsters; and they were considerably bigger and stronger than the young people involved.​

“It was after the deceased pushed one of the youngsters that this defendant did what he did and that presents a rather different picture from the hullabaloo that [subsequently] arose after this incident took place.”​

The court heard the defendant had two previous convictions, one for possessing half a knuckleduster and the other for threatening behaviour, and was on bail for a separate matter at the time of the attack.
from your Guardian link​
Not really a pillar of the community was he. We have no idea what had gone on previously.

Subsequent news report a year later:
Arkadiusz Jozwik, 40, was attacked near a row of takeaway shops in Harlow, Essex, on 27 August 2016. He died in hospital two days later.
A 16-year-old boy - who was 15 at the time and cannot be named for legal reasons - denies manslaughter.
Chelmsford Crown Court heard he had used "the whole force of his body" to hit Mr Jozwik. The trial continues.
"However, we say he moved deliberately around the back of Mr Jozwik to take him by surprise and to hit him from behind.
She said two boys cycled close to the men, which "seemed to spark a disagreement" between the two groups.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-40718651

These lads are scum as I've previously said....

Remember what said... These young sh!ts most probley never knew what Brexit was..


That mans death that night could have been me or any other person walking pAst. These not so little gits are the pits End. I’m happy he was put away. He might come out a better person.
 
You do realise the kind of thug that was found guilty of manslaughter.

Patrick Upward, [the defending solicitor] mitigating, said: “The deceased and his companion, according to the witnesses called by the prosecution, were staggering from drink; they made racist remarks; they invited violence from those youngsters; and they were considerably bigger and stronger than the young people involved.​

“It was after the deceased pushed one of the youngsters that this defendant did what he did and that presents a rather different picture from the hullabaloo that [subsequently] arose after this incident took place.”​

The court heard the defendant had two previous convictions, one for possessing half a knuckleduster and the other for threatening behaviour, and was on bail for a separate matter at the time of the attack.
from your Guardian link​
Not really a pillar of the community was he. We have no idea what had gone on previously.

Subsequent news report a year later:
Arkadiusz Jozwik, 40, was attacked near a row of takeaway shops in Harlow, Essex, on 27 August 2016. He died in hospital two days later.
A 16-year-old boy - who was 15 at the time and cannot be named for legal reasons - denies manslaughter.
Chelmsford Crown Court heard he had used "the whole force of his body" to hit Mr Jozwik. The trial continues.
"However, we say he moved deliberately around the back of Mr Jozwik to take him by surprise and to hit him from behind.
She said two boys cycled close to the men, which "seemed to spark a disagreement" between the two groups.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-40718651

 
Of course and the different 'types' of people are all people.
No one is disputing that. Why did you have to say it?
As all people are people.
Why did you have to ask the question?


Why not[use the term breed]? No, I mean why don't we?
You, though, appear to accept that it is the equivalent of 'types'.
It's not considered polite. we don't use udders for mammary glands, we don't use trotters for feet, we don't use hooves either, etc. There's lots of words that are not interchangeable between humans and animals.

We used to, though.
When we were ignorant and really thought that there were different classifications of humans.
As I said a while ago, when I was young people with parents of different 'types' were called half-breeds.
This became unacceptable (as normal words do) and was replaced with 'mixed-race'.
Therefore, we can accept that in normal usage, whether scientifically accurate or not, 'race' was a substitute for 'breed'.
But now we know that we are all the same breed or race. So the concept of race has changed to accommodate the outdated concept and move to the more modern scientific, socially constructed concept that acknowledges that there is only one race or breed.
We now use the socially constructed term 'race' as interchangeable for ethnicity, nationality, religion or custom

As such 'racism' is prejudice against someone solely on the grounds that they are of a different 'race' - meaning 'breed'.
And as we now use the term race, interchangeably with ethnicity, religion, nationality, custom, it equally applies to those differences.

On the subject of scientifically, you said that there were chimpanzees of different races which had a 0.3% difference in genes
I didn't. I might have reproduced a scientific article showing such evidence, (but it doesn't sound familiar) but it wasn't mine. if you'd like to look it up, you'll find the reference so that you can take it up with the author.
but people of different 'types' had less than 0.1% and this was not enough to be a different race. I don't know if that is true or who decides that but as it is the sole determinator of the 'types' of people regardless of nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. then whether that results in actual races or it is just a name used for the 'types' is immaterial.
There are no actual 'races' in humans. Human is the race.
So your rather verbose explanation concludes with a fallacious hypothesis.

You also said that different races of species could not breed. This is not true with the Chimpanzees.
Well then, they are either not different races, or your are reproducing a distorted version of what I said.
Please reproduce what I said, rather than vague reference to something you claim I have said.


...but they are separate things unrelated to the 'types'.
Ethnicity or even family genes is what accounts for the difference in what you refer to types. But nationality or custom can also account for the differences, For instance, what is referred to as a black person is different in South America, North American, Russia, etc. They are all different socially constructed concepts. otherwise South America would have to have a definition for a black person, which would be different from a North American definition, which would be different from a Russian definition, etc. They do have different definitions, because it is a socially constructed concept.

As with the cats, one is Persian and one is Siamese, (albeit names of countries but that is not relevant) it is nothing to do with their nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. It does not matter where they are born or how they are brought up, the 'types' will still be the same.
They inherit their characteristics from their parents, via the genes. They are not direct clones, but a mixture of the two. However, over time subtle differences will develop, even new 'types' will appear by mating the different 'breeds'. But theyll still all be cats. That will never change.

People of different 'types' can have the same nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. so those things might not be the reason for the prejudice.
Absolutely not,. We have established that we are using the word type to be interchangeable with race, breed, ethnicity, nationality, or religion.
Type, breed, race are socially constructed concepts. As can be ethnicity, religion, nationality, etc. if we create a new country, we create a new nationality.


It might be something else. What could it be?
It does not apply, see above.


Or not. They might use it in a way everyone understands.
Evreyone, except you, sodthisforfun, notch, and others that believe in racial essentialism, do understand it.


That is nonsense. I have no prejudice against any [don't complicate the discussion with verbosity]'type' of people.
Racial essentialism is a racist ideology. If you believe in communism, you are a communist. If you believe in Christianity, you are a Christian, etc.

As you and Bas are saying, the meaning of words changes therefore it could have changed to mean what I (and the general population) think it is, not your definition.
Except I have produced numerous articles proving that the general population, except those believing in racial essentialism, do understand that race is a socially constructed concept, not your as yet un-presented definition.

Please stop saying that disagreement on a meaning of a word means that someone is that word. It is nonsense.
Racial essentialism is a racist ideology. If you believe in communism, you are a communist. If you believe in Christianity, you are a Christian, etc.

The word 'race' cannot, does not and does not need to, mean nationality, ethnicity, religion etc. as well.
They do for those not relying on a Victorian, outdated, scientifically dis-proven definition and ideology to justify their racism.
 
Last edited:
John D, (D for dreadful maybe, or deceitful?) is trying to goad me into saying something bad about Jews. I don't know why. I didn't mention Jews at all. The Jews are one race of people that I welcome - I have never had a problem with them and I don't understand anybody's hatred of them. There is a Jewish area in Manchester and it is spotlessly clean, tidy and respectable with well-kept houses and leafy, pleasant streets. (Contrast this with muslim-dominated areas.)

Whenever I cross paths with any Jewish folk they are extremely well mannered and polite. Their children are respectful and well behaved - even so far as being "seen and not heard" as in our own older, more respectable past. You never hear of Jewish people as welfare scroungers.

Jews are persecuted by muslims though - they are slowly migrating away from Europe as more muslims flood into Europe. It is Jews whom we must give refuge to, if necessary, rather than the scum of the earth that we currently let in. I cannot get to the bottom of the anti-Semitism in the Labour party at the moment, but it comes at the same time as the Labour Party has become the political party of muslims in Britain.

The lot of the Jew is a difficult one; they are persecuted everywhere it seems. Their home land, Israel, the only civilised country in the Middle East, is surrounded entirely by countries who wish to destroy it, and it has to constantly and permanently defend itself and maintain a huge military or it will be annihilated by guess who - muslims.


Anyway, back to the point: Tommy Robinson...

Tommy is a hero. Someone on here, earlier, said that that there needs to be somebody more eloquent than Tommy to discuss the muslim problem. Well, there is nobody else with the guts to do this, so we are stuck with Tommy, criminal convictions and all. You might not like him personally but the bravery of people like him is necessary to tackle what is the biggest threat to world peace since Hitler. You won't solve the problem by waiting for somebody nice and polite and of impeccable character to come along.
 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top