Maintenance free vs accessible

[rebuke]

So, there have been many discussions about whether the Hager/Ashley 'maintenance free' junction boxes can be used in inaccessible locations, with most arguing that they don't comply with 526.3.

I thought people might be interested that Hager now appear to have claimed their product does comply, as they've done a 'Junction box guide' video, in which they clearly state and show one of their boxes being put under a carpetted floor. See http://www.hager.co.uk/index.php?id=5343 (the maintenance free bit starts at 02:35).

 

[Click-Sure]

Codswhallop.

You won't catch me using one of them under a floor or similar!

Anyway, what does a french company know about British Standard 7671 anyway?

 

[rebuke]

I should point out, I wouldn't use one in an inaccessible location myself, as I don't think it complies, regardless of what they say, but was intrigued that they now seem to be claiming it's ok - previously their marketing had all been quite careful to say e.g. "Complies with wiring regulations", never that it can be inaccessible...

 

[securespark]

If you want my opinion, I think it will fast become another split-load board.

IE, accepted by the masses as complying with regulations, but in reality, a half-cocked "solution" that does not strictly comply with the letter and spirit of the regs.

 

[sparkyspike]

There's not much that Hager are doing wrong. What is wrong is that the IEE in BS7671 haven't made it clear what makes a joint exempt from inspection. 526.3 doesn't specifically allow inspection free junction boxes (of the type we're talking about) and Appendix 15 seems to contradict 526.3 by implying that maintenance free terminals can be used where inspection isn't possible..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Appendix 15 is a bit like having a few pages of OSG type material appended to the regulations as a sort of appendix.

It's not a formal part of the regs.

 

[ElectricDunc]

Choc box and through crimps. Cheaper, smaller, a much better job and compliant with the regulations. Why anyone would buy one of those things especially at the price they are sold at will always baffle me.

 

[plugwash]

It leaves the problem of what to do if you want more than two wires joined in an inaccessible location though.

Some people use a larger crimp with more than one wire in each end but I understand this is frowned upon.

I've heared rumors that three way crimp joints exist but i've never seen them for sale.

There is the option of solder and heatshrink but afaict most sparkies tend to avoid soldering.

 

[Zambezi]

Time is money.
If you spend 15 minutes doing a fancy crimp, heat shrink, chocbox connection (which is no good if have more than 2 cables to join), plus lugging crimping tools, heat guns, extension lead to plug in the heat gun and 3 different materials to remember vs fitting a box.
If you are working for somebody else and you get paid whether you are working at 100mph or sitting in the van reading the paper then the 1st option is not too bad.

PS this is not a poll for people to see how fast they can crimp a connection. It is quicker to fit a junction box than it is to do all the other stuff.

The legality of the box is something we will probably never got to the bottom of either.

 

[Pengwyn]

Coming across from industry this is a new problem to me.

So if these "maintenance free" junction boxes are frowned upon, what is the alternative ?

Say you want to spare off a ring under the floor boards and there will be NO access.

Would you crimp, even though you will be putting 2 wires in one end of the crimp ?

Personally I don't there is anything wrong with the new boxes, but maybe that is because in industry we see lots of changes in technology so I am more accustomed to changes in working practices.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've heared rumors that three way crimp joints exist but i've never seen them for sale.

They would be very useful, and a Y or + shaped 3- or 4-way crimp could be made to work with a standard tool.

 

[flameport]

I've heared rumors that three way crimp joints exist but i've never seen them for sale.

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/bin/TE.Connect?C=1&M=BYPN&TCPN=34073&RQPN=34073
No European distributors though.

This site has a price for them:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/buy/AMP-TYCO/34073/
but at $1.36 each and an 8+ week wait

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Or of course you could roll your own with ring terminals and a pop-riveter.

Either way I'm struggling to think how you'd heat-shrink it afterwards....

 

[plugwash]

mmm, seems it isn't fully insulated which kinda defeats the object IMO. Rolling your own seems to have the same problem.

 

[mattylad]

Personally I have never come across a junction box that was a problem, I have never found one with loose connections etc.

Is it because they can come undone?
If so why can they not be stuck down with hot melt glue on top of the screw etc?