Been quoted a figure in region of 1500 quid for supply and install of new Worcester 65000 BTU boiler. The last time a Corgi guy changed a CH pump for me he charged me almost double for the pump - I guess some mark up is to be expected and is in with his overall price - I assume he would just add on the difference in the fitting charge if I supplied my own parts? I'll get him to break down the quote for the boiler, but what would be a reasonable fitting charge for that type of boiler/reasonable mark up on the boiler itself? It would be an almost like for like replacement of the current boiler in the kitchen. Am I better off shopping around for my own boiler (on line maybe) and getting him to fit it - he told me he does fit things people buy themselves.
Mark up on parts
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If you do not like his price then get someone else.
The thing to bear in mind is that a boiler change is not just chopping pipes and connecting to new boiler. As a service engineer I see loads of boilers fitted thus that make subsequent repairs a pain leading to higher repair costs. Repaired an Ariston where the cover had to be raised above the boiler as there is hardly any space in front of the boiler
The thing to bear in mind is that a boiler change is not just chopping pipes and connecting to new boiler. As a service engineer I see loads of boilers fitted thus that make subsequent repairs a pain leading to higher repair costs. Repaired an Ariston where the cover had to be raised above the boiler as there is hardly any space in front of the boiler
I'm not complaining about the price (yet), but I want to know what I'm paying for. I want to get a few quotes and try to break them down into parts and labour - not so easy if they mark up the parts to make the labour seem cheaper, unless they are quoting for identical systems.
Judging from your comment, the cheaper quotes could result in a few corners being cut. Roughly how many hours would you estimate for a boiler change without too much reconfiguring of the pipework?
Judging from your comment, the cheaper quotes could result in a few corners being cut. Roughly how many hours would you estimate for a boiler change without too much reconfiguring of the pipework?
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You dont get a breakdown of how much profit, ingredients, cooking costs etc Sainsburys makes out of you when you buy a loaf of bread, if you dont like the price you just dont buy it and buy form Tesco's or whatever, get your quote's, make your mind up and stop wasting peoples time.
SOmeone I know of recently asked me to quote for swapping a boiler, over the phone. All sounded very precise so I said if exactly as described, etc, £1200 for specified work. He called back later and said he could get the boiler for 620 so how much to fit. So I said £580, and he didn't like it, but all he was saving me was a phone call.
Have said elsewhere recently - you can't expect plumbers to supply parts at Wickes prices. One-man- bands have to do all the overheads for their business that a big firm does. You wouldn't expect one of those to not charge RRP - same deal. Ask BG for a quote - like £2500 for a boiler swap, if you're lucky, at this time of year.
Anyone running his own company has to earn £35k a year or more otherwise why bother? And to earn that you have to gross well over £1000 per working week. And you don't fit boilers every day, and its very seasonal - you do the sums.
And you're right about corners being cut - if you squeeze anyone's price, he's likely to squeeze the service he gives, which you won't know about until it's too late.
Have said elsewhere recently - you can't expect plumbers to supply parts at Wickes prices. One-man- bands have to do all the overheads for their business that a big firm does. You wouldn't expect one of those to not charge RRP - same deal. Ask BG for a quote - like £2500 for a boiler swap, if you're lucky, at this time of year.
Anyone running his own company has to earn £35k a year or more otherwise why bother? And to earn that you have to gross well over £1000 per working week. And you don't fit boilers every day, and its very seasonal - you do the sums.
And you're right about corners being cut - if you squeeze anyone's price, he's likely to squeeze the service he gives, which you won't know about until it's too late.
ChrisR said:
Interesting that. Although I can understand where you are coming from I'm not sure I can agree with you! As a customer, I have no objection to paying more for the labour etc with one-man bands provided that they provide quality service (I've found this far more likely from small firms than big). The overheads should be part of the overall 'cost of operating' for the firm (ie covered by the fees charged). However, if I can walk into Wickes, Plumbase etc and buy an item at a discounted (but not trade) price I don't agree that I should be charged RRP by the tradesman. I obviouslyly can't expect to pay trade price but I do expect to pay the fair 'market' price. Market price is just about never RRP.
In my line of business our daily rates are what covers the costs of other staff and overheads however the product we sell is sold frequently at discounted rates with us making some margin but 'list' price is not something anyone will pay us if they can get it cheaper elsewhere.
Sorry for the ramble but what is the main argument for RRP rather than just a realistic labour rate?
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For goodness sake go and buy your boiler from wherever and fit it yourself and leave the forum for proper questions instead of trying to find out how much people make,.
Er....I've been charged £25 for a letter from the bank to tell me I have no money left, do you think that's a bit steep and should I get some more quotes. Seems a lot for 5 minutes work, after all, I could get a plumber for 1/2 hour for that.
I have a (well off) friend who's stock phrase is "if you have to ask the price you can't afford it". He may have a point.
I have a (well off) friend who's stock phrase is "if you have to ask the price you can't afford it". He may have a point.
I think a lot of people here seem to be forgetting as soon as any tradesman start his van outside his house the money meter is ticking away, some one got to pay for it. It's no good saying I can walk into Wickes without realising how much did it cost me to get there, petrol and your time etc...........cirks said:
I have lost many hours finding materials for the clients and this is the hidden costs they don't see.
I have experienced this too. One of the most frustrating jobs recently was fitting a bathroom suite bought by the customer as a discounted end of line item from a DIY shed. Every fitting had something missing or unsatisfactory. I must have made 3 or 4 trips to the merchants and that was after checking through everything first, but its difficult to remember everything until you actually come to fit.
The worst part of the job came when I wiped up some tea I had spilled into the bath in front of the customer. This wipe showed up a crack ! in the bottom of the bath. The lady conceded the bath had been stored for some time in the garage and had been moved about a bit by her hubby. Luckily he got the blame and not me. The more experience I have of using materials supplied by the customer, the more uncomfortable I become about this way of working. I don't fit gas, but imagine that bath was instead a flue or a seal on a boiler, and the defect not discovered until it was to late.
I can understand some outfits that insist in only fitting this or that brand, its probably cheaper in the end because everything works first time and familiarity means efficiency.
Wickes stuff is perhaps most suited to those who have endless hours to spend at DIY and finally getting it all to work.
The worst part of the job came when I wiped up some tea I had spilled into the bath in front of the customer. This wipe showed up a crack ! in the bottom of the bath. The lady conceded the bath had been stored for some time in the garage and had been moved about a bit by her hubby. Luckily he got the blame and not me. The more experience I have of using materials supplied by the customer, the more uncomfortable I become about this way of working. I don't fit gas, but imagine that bath was instead a flue or a seal on a boiler, and the defect not discovered until it was to late.
I can understand some outfits that insist in only fitting this or that brand, its probably cheaper in the end because everything works first time and familiarity means efficiency.
Wickes stuff is perhaps most suited to those who have endless hours to spend at DIY and finally getting it all to work.
masona said:
Even though you may be questioning my comment at least it was a polite response rather than the comment from a certain tradesman who obviously has no idea about responding to perfectly reasonable questions or subjects for debate, Mr PedanticVindictiveMan. Anyway, that's the joys of forums isn't it
Anyway, Masona, you make a valid point. However, I don't forget that everytime someone gets in the van it is costing money but like any business this, I think, should be reflected in the job charges/daily rates. Our business frequently is involved in tenders that cost us thousands with no guarantee that we'll get work out of it. However, the charges we make to any clients that we do work for take account of these 'overheads' and losses. We still can't charge more the product, only the service. To use the crap analogy from earlier, I buy bread (= a total product therefore couldn't care what ingredients there are) whereas a plumber/builder/electrician etc supplies a service PLUS parts. Parts can, and should be an 'open' fixed cost. I never said that there should be no markup, just that markup from trade price to RRP is excessive. Why not just charge trade + a percentage or even the same as the real retail price?
Therefore, where is the logic in adding additional costs for overheads on a part supplied by a tradesman rather than just adding them on to the service provided? I think this is where somepeople can't understand quotes that do not break things down to 'labour' and 'parts'.
I'm only interested in sensible debate (as I'm sure most users are) so if I'm going to be flamed for asking then don't even bother responding. If there you feel there is a legitimate argument then fine, I'm listening.
if ive got it and you want it you pay end of story
what is there to debate you want to sit and freeze for 14 days till your new pcb comes or ive got one and you can have it today at my price
law of supply and demand
what is there to debate you want to sit and freeze for 14 days till your new pcb comes or ive got one and you can have it today at my price
law of supply and demand
kevplumb said:if ive got it and you want it you pay end of story
what is there to debate you want to sit and freeze for 14 days till your new pcb comes or ive got one and you can have it today at my price
law of supply and demand
Fine - I doubt you're the only one that has one and can do the job though therefore demand will go elsewhere! Perhaps I'm wrong but any business these days that believes that they deserve to get work without having to actually do something to justify their costs and methods is heading for trouble.
Emergencies I think most people will accept are slightly different I was trying to focus on 'normal' jobs.
I am a massive advocate for good service and quality and am happy to pay for it (I very rarely choose the cheapest option as it usually costs more in the long run) but anyone who thinks that I owe them a living not surprisingly never gets work (either at a personal or multi 100k project level).
nobody owes me a living i owe it to myself to make a living thats how i was brought up
i dont do 100k projects and personally find the comparison abborrent
that was deliberate btw
i dont do 100k projects and personally find the comparison abborrent
that was deliberate btw
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