Menvier TS 510 Domestic Security System Stuck in Tamper Alarm

[Traveller471]

I have a Menvier TS 510 securiy system with 5 PIRs. Following professional redecoration work, the system is now stuck in tamper alarm mode. 4 of the 5 PIRs have been replaced with identical new ones (old ones had gone yellowish although worked correctly). I have triple checked the wiring of every PIR against the original wiring, both of the old ones (carefully recorded) and also the manufacturers spec and everything seems fine.

The PIRs are connected in series with the tamper circuits for numbers 1,2,4 and 5 all linked out in the control unit. PIR 3, which gives the tamper alarm, is wired at the control unit with what are presumably the two ends of the serial tamper circuit.

Is my understanding correct that if the tamper alarm indicates PIR 3, then the NC relay in the relevant PIR is open circuit and hence switching on the (Zone) tamper3 light? The alarm is of course also triggered but I understand this is caused by the open circuit tamper loop whereas the zone light is switched on by the alarm output from PIR 3.

I have checked the AUX fuse and it is OK.

Please can anyone advise whether my understanding is correct and offer any suggestions?

 

[sparkymarka]

Post picture of inside our and what you have at the control panel end

 

[Traveller471]

Thanks for replying. Picture attached. I would appreciate any comments you may have,
Thanks

 

[sparkymarka]

First step remove the green and white from zone 3 tamper …fit a link to this tamper zone as tamper 1,2,4 etc refit the panel lid and reset the panel ….does it now set ?

 

[Traveller471]

OK, thanks. I had already done that and it does then set correctly.

 

[Handymanjo]

Check control panel lid is on correctly

 

[Traveller471]

Yes it is - screws tight, although I know that may not guarantee the tamper switch is closed. Never had problems with that before - I suppose theis could be the first time!

 

[sparkymarka]

If that’s the case then one of your new detector lids are not on correctly or wired incorrectly

 

[Traveller471]

Thanks again for your reply - it is appreciated.
I will go round them all again in case I have missed something or something is not properly tightened etc, but that will have to be done tomorrow. I will post again regardless of the result.
What still confuses me is why it is the Zone 3 light which illuminates. I understood that the zone light was controlled directly by the alarm output from the relevant PIR when the NC tamper relay was open circuit. Therefore the problem had to be with PIR 3 - maybe I am wrong.

 

[Handymanjo]

Put a link in all zone tamper circuits.
Put control panel lid back on,if tamper fault is clear then remove each tamper link one by one.
Had a problem few years back with TS500 and it was the control panel lid not make firm contact with panel lid.

 

[Traveller471]

Ok, thanks for the suggestion. I thought the tamper circuit was one continuous in-series loop incorporating all the PIRs, and that wherever it was broken it would trigger the alarm. The PIR with the open tamper circuit then lit the relevant zone light. Again, my understanding may well be wrong.
Anyway, I will try these ideas and post again.
Many thanks for helping today.

 

[sparkymarka]

Your system should have had separate tamper PER zone but it looks like they have series all the tampers up to one zone ….it may have been an upgrade many years ago ….I thought the TS 510 could use EOL on the zones ….this a 25 year old alarm panel

 

[Traveller471]

Thanks again - interesting.
I'll get back tomorrow when I have found out a bit more.

 

[Traveller471]

OK, I promised to post the results of the proposed tests.
I put links in all tamper zones at the control box and with the door closed there are no alarms or illuminated zone light as one would expect - all normal.
I also linked out the PA circuit.
When I open the door of the control panel the tamper alarm sounds - so the door switch is working.
When I remove the link in tamper 1 the zone 1 light illuminates
When I remove links in other zones the corresponding zone light illuminates.
Put everything back as it was originally - ie take the link out of tamper 3 and reconnect the green and white wires - and alarm is triggered with zone 3 light illuminated.
I also tried disconnecting the tamper 3 green and white wires from the panel and put a meter across the disconnected green and white wires - this is found to be open circuit of course, hence the alarm and zone 3 light illuminating.

Now I don't know where to go.
Any suggestions would certainly be appreciated.
Regards.

 

[sparkymarka]

Have you checked all the new detectors ? What detectors have you fitted post picture ….personally if it was me and I had to stick with that control panel I would re wire the detectors EOL and not use the global tamper …