Meter Reading Change for our Freehold

[ericmark]

My smart meter 5 inches wide, and 7 inches wide, but needs another 4 inches below it to have a reasonable curve for the cables.
My old meter this type

and there was not enough room to change it. Other items on the board had to be moved first, but I wanted a smart meter to be paid for export, so I had to jump through their loops.

I have had problems in the past with meter installers, including giving a TT supply, when the paperwork said the supply would be TN-C-S, and they actually turned on the supply with no earth connected.

Current rules seem to be that only one wire may be terminated in each port

That seems fair enough, can't really say torqued up correctly if more than one cable per terminal, at one time they wanted an electrician present before connecting the supply, or at least a resent EICR or EIC, and really can't raise them without any supply. I had this argument many times with caravans, any certificate issued no longer valid once moved.

But with an existing supply, that is not really valid, they have two options, connect as it was connected before, or abort the meter change. My meter change was aborted twice. I must say final job was very neat, full marks, and new tails fitted as well to the isolator.

But had I not asked for a new meter, I don't think I would have ever got one. And I simply can't read it, OK the app tells me what I have used, so that is not a problem, but in my wife's name, so every so often they change pass word, and I have to change it in the app.

It would be far cheaper if the communal lights were added through a meter of course to one of the residents supplies and the other 3 paid him, it would remove the standing charge.

 

[SUNRAY]

That sounds very reasonable, doesn't it? I must say that I can't recall every having seen otherwise.

Years back it was extremely common:
7/.0.044" to the 30A or 7/0.052" to a 60A DP fused switch
7/0.029" to the 10 or 15A DP fused switch for lighting

And a modern example possibly even 2 examples

Oh and both of those properties have an EV charger as does the other head where the looped supply originates from

As above, I don't really see why that situation should arise. In particular, in terms f the OP's friend, it would seem particularly odd that a fire-alarm should be fed directly from the meter (if t was) - not the least because there would have to be some OPD somewhere!

As above 2 different isolator/ocpd

 

[plugwash]

As above, I don't really see why that situation should arise. In particular, in terms f the OP's friend, it would seem particularly odd that a fire-alarm should be fed directly from the meter (if t was) - not the least because there would have to be some OPD somewhere!

Second fuseboxes/CUs get installed for a bunch of reasons. Sometimes running out of slots, sometimes lack of parts availability, sometimes lack of provision for RCD protection (or conversely, not wanting to put something like a fire alarm or lift supply on a RCD).

Now the installer of the second CU probablly should use Henly blocks, but the reality is people cut corners. We see loads of old installations on here with multiple sets of tails in the meter outputs.

 

[JohnW2]

Second fuseboxes/CUs get installed for a bunch of reasons. Sometimes running out of slots, sometimes lack of parts availability, sometimes lack of provision for RCD protection (or conversely, not wanting to put something like a fire alarm or lift supply on a RCD).

Sure, but as you go on to write ....

Now the installer of the second CU probablly should use Henly blocks, but the reality is people cut corners. We see loads of old installations on here with multiple sets of tails in the meter outputs.

It's surely a very strong "should", isn't it?

Whilst I've seen plenty of second CUs/fuseboxes installed for the sort of reasons you give, I'm pretty sure that I never seen wired directly into a meter (along with the first one) - only ever with Henley's or suchlike. Apart from anything else, I'm not sure it really would qualify as 'cutting corners' since, unless the person wanted to do something very naughty and dangerous, there would be as much hassle involved in getting the DNO fuse pulled and getting access to the meter terminals (if anyone was prepared to provide that access) as there would be in fitting a Henley/whatever, wouldn't there?

 

[JohnW2]

Years back it was extremely common: .... 7/.0.044" to the 30A or 7/0.052" to a 60A DP fused switch .... 7/0.029" to the 10 or 15A DP fused switch for lighting

I know that we're both pretty old, but you seem to be turning the clock back to the days before domestic DBs/CUs, aren't you? What I said was that I cannot recall ever having seen a 'second CU' fed directly from a meter, and that obviously presues that there is a 'first CU' already fed from the meter.

And a modern example possibly even 2 examples ........ Oh and both of those properties have an EV charger as does the other head where the looped supply originates from

Hmmmm. Is my eyesight failing me as well as everything else? As far as I can tell from your photo, what I'm seeing is two meters, each of which only has one pair of outgoing conductors. Where is the meter which is supplying two or more things (e.g an 'original CU' plus something else that has been added)?

 

[SUNRAY]

I know that we're both pretty old, but you seem to be turning the clock back to the days before domestic DBs/CUs, aren't you? What I said was that I cannot recall ever having seen a 'second CU' fed directly from a meter, and that obviously presues that there is a 'first CU' already fed from the meter.

Well yes but then an upgrade is done and the CI fused switchs are simply replaced with CU's. The house I grew up in was exactly that situation.

However, generally the second set of modern tails feeds a fused switch rather than a CU and numerous examples of modern tails to 2 devices exist across the country, just because you haven't seen them it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I have a granny annex and when we moved in the 6mm² tails to the 45A fused switch

were in the meter beside the 16mm² tails to a Henley then 16mm² tails to the main fuse box

and 4mm² to a 30A wylex

for the shower, Now repurposed for the shed submain.

The Annex tails were moved to the Henley by DNO when I repeatedly complained about over voltage.


I probably have more pics of modern situations but enough have appeared on here over the years already.

Hmmmm. Is my eyesight failing me as well as everything else? As far as I can tell from your photo, what I'm seeing is two meters, each of which only has one pair of outgoing conductors. Where is the meter which is supplying two or more things (e.g an 'original CU' plus something else that has been added)?

In this instance I'm showing 3 wires in 2 holes ringed red and 2 in 1 ringed pink on the head

and I'm not sure if the same thing is happening in the yellow ring on the unused time switch.

So slightly different place but still the same scenario

 

[JohnW2]

Well yes but then an upgrade is done and the CI fused switchs are simply replaced with CU's. The house I grew up in was exactly that situation.

I obviously can't argue with your experience but, as I said,I don't think I have personally seen (in the era of fuseboxes/CUs) a second CU (or something) fed directly from a domesticmeter as well as the primary CU.
Similar to what you describe above, what I have seen a good few times are situations in which two or more CI Switch-fuses (all fed from one meter), of the pre-fusebox/CU-era days', were replaced with a single fusebox/ CU, that then becoming the (one and) only thing fed directly from the meter. There were so few final circuits in those days that it's hard to see why anyone would have needed to replace the switch-fuse with more than one fusebox/CU !

However, generally the second set of modern tails feeds a fused switch rather than a CU and numerous examples of modern tails to 2 devices exist across the country, just because you haven't seen them it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I certainly agree with the last bit of that, not the least because my exposure to/experience of such things is fairly limited.

I have a granny annex and when we moved in the 6mm² tails to the 45A fused switch ..... were in the meter beside the 16mm² tails to a Henley then 16mm² tails to the main fuse box .... and 4mm² to a 30A wylexfor the shower, Now repurposed for the shed submain.

Again, whilst I obviously can't argue about what you have experienced, I can but repeat that I have personally never (in the fusebox/CU era) seen more than one 'something' (i.e a fusebox/CU, isolator or Henleys/whatever) fed directly from a domestic meter.

In this instance I'm showing 3 wires in 2 holes ringed red and 2 in 1 ringed pink on the head

You are.

.... and I'm not sure if the same thing is happening in the yellow ring on the unused time switch.

Yes, maybe.

So slightly different place but still the same scenario

I'm not sure whether it's what you are admitting when you refer to a "slightly different place", but what you are highlighting there is totally different from what we've been discussing - we've been talking about a situation in which two or more 'things' are fed directly from the output of the meter, whereas your piccie is showing multiple things being fed directly from the cutout. The latter was far from uncommon - in particular, I think that the feed to a timeswitch (like the unused one in your photo) invariably came from the cutout (as well as the tails to the meter).

 

[SUNRAY]

I obviously can't argue with your experience but, as I said,I don't think I have personally seen (in the era of fuseboxes/CUs) a second CU (or something) fed directly from a domesticmeter as well as the primary CU.
Similar to what you describe above, what I have seen a good few times are situations in which two or more CI Switch-fuses (all fed from one meter), of the pre-fusebox/CU-era days', were replaced with a single fusebox/ CU, that then becoming the (one and) only thing fed directly from the meter. There were so few final circuits in those days that it's hard to see why anyone would have needed to replace the switch-fuse with more than one fusebox/CU !

I certainly agree with the last bit of that, not the least because my exposure to/experience of such things is fairly limited.

Again, whilst I obviously can't argue about what you have experienced, I can but repeat that I have personally never (in the fusebox/CU era) seen more than one 'something' (i.e a fusebox/CU, isolator or Henleys/whatever) fed directly from a domestic meter.

You are.

Yes, maybe.

I'm not sure whether it's what you are admitting when you refer to a "slightly different place", but what you are highlighting there is totally different from what we've been discussing - we've been talking about a situation in which two or more 'things' are fed directly from the output of the meter, whereas your piccie is showing multiple things being fed directly from the cutout. The latter was far from uncommon - in particular, I think that the feed to a timeswitch (like the unused one in your photo) invariably came from the cutout (as well as the tails to the meter).

My comments added the 'one wire in a hole' which is supposed to apply to everything at the supply & meter although I didn't explicitly make the statement.
In other E7 installations I've seen a few Neutral Henley blocks before the meter, however strangely never in the line,,, I wonder why

 

[ericmark]

I know E7 existed, and I know how it should have been wired, but in real life, only seen a white meter once in my Uncle Trevor's house. And so long ago, no idea how it was wired.

As @SUNRAY has said the split was before the meter, when using the white meter, clearly not with Henley blocks, so likely the charge was done by the supplier when updating from the white meter.

 

[JohnW2]

My comments added the 'one wire in a hole' which is supposed to apply to everything at the supply & meter although I didn't explicitly make the statement.

Fair enough, but the 'one wire in a hole' we were discussing was 'one wire in a hole of a meter', not of a cutout.

In other E7 installations I've seen a few Neutral Henley blocks before the meter, ...

Sure, but since the neutral path through a meter is a 'solid' one, it the neutral needs to be split it presumably makes no difference as to whether that is done before or after the meter?

however strangely never in the line,,, I wonder why

Quite so