Modern cars

[andyandy2]

Is it just me that finds the modern car a nightmare to work on, i don't specifically mean because of all the electronic technology, but more about the way things have been built.

I've just spent hours removing a cylinder head on a Meriva, struggled for ages getting the exhaust manifold off, bolts which should have a 10mm head but corroded due to heat, end up being about 8.5mm and not a chance you can grip them, "TORX" type bolts in the exhaust support bracket which have nearly disintegrated before you've put a spanner anywhere near them.

I've been involved in the motor trade for 31 years, and it never used to be the case that you needed a hammer and chisel and an angle grinder to remove a cylinder head from a 5 year old car or truck

Another pet hate is all the plastic clips and fittings which become brittle with age and seem to snap if you as much as look at them.
From my experience it doesn't seem to be just Vauxhalls that suffer from these problems, i suppose its just part of the demand for cheap mass produced cars

 

[spannerman1975]

My sentiments exactly. All these things cause me to swear very loudly!

 

[Peter.N.]

Welcome to the club Although not a professional mechanic I have always maintained my own cars and used to do quite a number of diesel conversions, then came along the Citroen CX diesel and it was no longer necessary. The Turbo 2 that came out in '86 had a 0-60 time of about 10 seconds and did 120 mph with a fuel consumption of 40+ but the great thing was that it was quite easy to work on.

Then they brought out the XM which was regarded as a dreadful car to work on and yet by modern standards although not the easiest you can do it. these are superb cars to ride in, unlike many modern cars the wheels actually go up and down over bumps so you don't feel them.

I think that the best cars were made in the '90s since then they have gone steadily down hill. I have recently ventured into post 2000 cars with a 406 Hdi, these seem to be reasonably easy to work on and reliable unlike most of the later diesels with ridiculously long oil change intervals.

I doub't that I will be buying anything much newer.

Peter

 

[Avocet]

Yes, they're just not designed to be taken apart. They're also designed by "CAD jockeys" who have probably never done so much as an oil change before. Some of it, is common to older cars too - for years, seized exhaust manifold and downpipe fasteners have been a problem, but on modern cars, acces is poor because (a) there are so many more bits to find a home for, (b) computer design is such that they can assemble a "virtual" car and checkfor clearances without ever having to actually do it and (c) packaging is so much tighter as everyone wants more interior space!

Plastic clips are (as has been said) cheap, but they're also very fast on the production line (important when you have only seconds, rather than minutes, to do your part of the job as the car goes past on the production line conveyor. They particularly love them where the sheet metal would otherwise have to be pierced because they won't start rust problems off by damaging surrounding paint.

 

[andyandy2]

I agree "seized manifold and downpipe bolts have been a problem for years" but i was talking about a 5 year old car with 60,000 miles on the clock, i would expect to be able to dismantle it without to much trouble, if it was 10 or 15 years old i would expect more problems.

Older vehicles normally had larger size nuts and bolts, which enabled a larger socket, which could be tapped on if need be, sometimes they would snap off but at least the components would come apart and you could drill out stud etc

The problem seems to be these flange type nuts and bolts where you might have an 8mm stud, which traditionally would have a nut requiring a 13mm spanner or socket, now the 8mm stud has a nut requiring an 11mm socket, a small amount of corrosion on this 11mm nut and it soon becomes 10mm or less

The same principle is used on bigger bolts and studs, 10mm studs would normally be 17mm nuts, but now are 15 or even 13mm. This can lead to torque problems to tighten or loosen that 10mm stud you would of used a 17mm spanner which would be say 10" long, now you use a 13mm spanner which may be 7" long, spanners increase in length for a reason.

The plastic clips i was refering to were the type holding fuel or vacuum pipes, or the clips on wiring multi plugs where pressing the "lugs" sometimes just doesn't release the clip, a bit of gentle persuassion with a small screwdriver and the brittle plastic clip is now in 2 pieces

Sorry my post seems to be turning in to a rant lol. In a main dealers we used to work on a time saved bonus scheme, where each job was allocated a time, not sure how things work nowadays, but removing this Meriva cylinder head could never of been done in the time allocated

 

[nickso]

Unless the owner has been negligent you shouldn't have to remove the cylinder head on a five year old car anyway.

New cars **** me off in general. All that dealer only coded ****e they have on them will see them in a crusher long before the **** build quality sees them rusting into the ground.

 

[Burnerman]

Anyone tried shifting dashboard components without marking them, or door cards without getting an eye full of broken poppers?
John

 

[Djnikon]

Anyone tried shifting dashboard components without marking them, or door cards without getting an eye full of broken poppers?
John

Or removing door cards without leaving tool marks on the fixing covers...

I have a BMW 320Cd 2.0 and it's all plastic covers and big plastic boxes under the bonnet. Getting in to something even as simple as the air filter requires you to have 4 spare hours and a twist of thinking to find all the bloody torx nuts (which aren't even all the same F****** size)

 

[Peter.N.]

Looks like the motor trade is going the same way as mine. I was a TV engineer for over 50 years - wouldn't know where to start now.

Peter

 

[ray99]

Unless the owner has been negligent you shouldn't have to remove the cylinder head on a five year old car anyway.

Ha ha. I wish.
Had the cylinder head off lots of BMW X3 diesels in the past 6 months for a decoke due to lack of power and they were seriously choked up. All around 40/50,000 miles
Even had the head off a 42,000 mile 57 plate 120i last week for the same reason.

 

[andyandy2]

The Meriva head gasket went due to a small plastic fitting breaking on the water pump, the owner was at fault in continuing to drive home, but the small plastic part failing is the actual fault

Why with all this modern technology we don't have better warning (or auto shutdown systems) for overheating or low oil pressure i'll never understand. Unless they want to sell more parts

 

[andyandy2]

Unless the owner has been negligent you shouldn't have to remove the cylinder head on a five year old car anyway.

Ha ha. I wish.
Had the cylinder head off lots of BMW X3 diesels in the past 6 months for a decoke due to lack of power and they were seriously choked up. All around 40/50,000 miles
Even had the head off a 42,000 mile 57 plate 120i last week for the same reason.

From my experience it seems the excessive carbon build up is due to the EGR systems, in theory modern diesels are running so much cleaner, so where else does it come from

 

[arkright]

im not impressed with modern cars i have a 57 avensis got it with 3k on it just got over 70k and either the head gasket or something else blew luckily toyota had extended the waranty on the engines to 5 yrs 112k due to them being crap and them knowing about it or i would of got a big bill

 

[Peter.N.]

At least they are one of the few companys that give some customer care, very different to most of the others.

Peter

 

[nickso]

Ha ha. I wish.
Had the cylinder head off lots of BMW X3 diesels in the past 6 months for a decoke due to lack of power and they were seriously choked up. All around 40/50,000 miles
Even had the head off a 42,000 mile 57 plate 120i last week for the same reason.

What I meant was new cars are ****e. Diesels are worse than ****e and I can't see me stooping that low.

All my old beemers have done pretty well, never had an H/G go on any of them, not even the 186k 540i (gearbox went though). H/G went on the the 335i soon after I sold it, poor bloke.

The only thing that worries me now is trying to find one no newer than '99 for a 3 series or '95 for a 5 series that are not riddled with rot or chavved up by council types. Anything after those dates is just useless.