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Moved to a flat aerial socket loose and is not connected ?

Discussion in 'Audio Visual' started by cantwatchtv, 22 May 2020.

  1. cantwatchtv

    cantwatchtv

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    HI i just moved to a flat. The TV reception is sporadic at best and we have been needing to re-tune it every few days. I have tried to look online and all the sockets seem to be wired in and the live wire connected ? Does this look normal ? Any advice would be great thank you. IMG_20200521_215813.jpg IMG_20200521_215838.jpg IMG_20200521_215845.jpg IMG_20200521_215849.jpg
     
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  3. mattylad

    mattylad

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    Your tv aerial wire is not in the socket, I can see it dangling in the back box.
    These need reconnecting to the correct points on the connector plate in picture one.

    The black cable with the silver connectors on goes to the satellite connector terminals (the top connector) and the black coax with the copper end showing goes to the TV connections.
     
  4. cantwatchtv

    cantwatchtv

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    Hiya i meant in the first post not connected bit early lol so what part do i put the exposed copper wire into ? silly question can i do this with my hands or pliars or is there a current i need to worry about ?
     

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  5. winston1

    winston1

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    NEVER EVER retune when you lose signals. You just wipe the receivers memory so you don't know when the signals are back.

    To remake the connections you need to open the back of the wall plate box using the centre screw in your picture:
    IMG_20200522_072231.jpg

    BUT if this part of a communal system you are probably not supposed to touch it but call in the management company. If that box is part of a tap off system it is important the wires are the right way round. One wonders how they came to be disconnected at all. Did they "pull out" when you removed the wall plate?
     
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  6. Lucid

    Lucid

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    It's safe to do this with your fingers, but you will need a small screwdriver to complete the job.

    Look at the metal part with the screw and two arrows. The arrows show the direction of signal travel. The one pointing down in your picture towards the big silver lump is the side where you want to connect the cable. Just for clarity, it's the right-hand side in your pictures.

    The cable in the backbox is already semi-prepared. It just needs tidying up. I would strongly recommend that you don't attempt to re-do the connection fresh because it will end up shortening the cable and may make it impossible to connect. Simply take the existing cable and make sure all the thin copper filaments are pushed back away from the thick centre pin.

    Your next stage is to undo the screw and expose where the cable connects. The thing you've just undone is a cable clamp. This is what will hold the cable in to the connection when we are finished.

    The thick centre pin will go in to a small hole in the back of the socket. Pushing it home fully will place the white insulation up against the body of the plug and give you the best chance of clamping the cable securely. If you find that the centre pin is too long to allow this to happen, then shorten it a couple of millimetres.

    Replace the clamp and screw it in to position. Give the cable a little tug to check it is clamped securely.

    Now, before you put the socket back in the wall, wire up the TV aerial coax and test the connection. This will allow you to see if the connection is sound before you re-fit the socket in to the wall plate. You can always remove the coax fly lead to the TV to make the socket easier to refit after the test is done.

    These modular sockets can sometimes be a little awkward to fit. The cable needs to be positioned so it isn't getting crushed or bent at a sharp angle. Take your time doing this as getting this bit wrong is why people have signal problems after fitting. It's better to take 10 minutes just to get this right than have to live with some TV signals being missing.

    If this or any other reply was helpful to you, then please do the decent thing and click the T-H-A-N-K-S button. It appears when you hover the mouse pointer near the Quote Multi-quote buttons. It costs you nothing. This is the proper way to show your thanks for the time and help someone gave you.
     
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  7. cantwatchtv

    cantwatchtv

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    Since we moved in we have only had a few channels and they have had terrible reception and the plate was loose it like the copper wire was just brushing against the back of the socket. I think prior to us moving in someone must have been playing with it as putting the cable in correctly means it will not fit flush anymore and sits at an angle. We do however have more channels then ever and perfect picture. Can i extend the copper cable easily ?
     

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  8. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Yes. There are a few different ways. I would recommend using the screw-type F connectors as used on the back of satellite connections are easy to fit to coax. You'll use these and a barrel-type back-to-back connector to join the two cables to make an extension.

    Performance tip: Don't try to extend the cheap coax fly leads that come with moulded plugs. Chopping the plug end off will leave you with a thin cable. Trying to find plug ends to fit it can turn in to a nightmare. Save yourself the hassle. Buy some WF100 / TX100 / PF100 (model names) coax, or the Nexans NX100 coax from screwfix. They're all as standard size (RG6) and so standard RG6 F connectors will fit securely.

    Fit a TV aerial plug on to the other end of the cable. You'll now have a really-well-shielded coax fly lead properly connected at the wall.

    Fitting a coax plug to some cable can be done a few different ways. The way in this video requires minimal tools and works reliably.
     
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  9. HERTS P&D

    HERTS P&D

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    Is that you in the video?

    Andy
     
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  11. winston1

    winston1

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    Not keen on that pigtail method though there are worse ways of fitting those plugs. But horror of horrors you have not soldered the centre pin. Not soldering leads to poor contact eventually and is a prime source of failure with phantom powered amplifiers or sky magic eye systems.

    I prefer fitting F plugs and adapters myself.
     
  12. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Yes
     
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  13. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Winston, I acknowledged that there are other ways of fitting the plugs. I also prefaced the post reply by saying that the method involves the minimum of tools.

    1) Not everyone can solder
    2) Not everyone who can solder can do it well enough to avoid overheating the centre pin and so melting the dielectric which then changes the positional relationship between the core and the shielding; thus changing the impedance characteristics of the cable or, in the worst cases, shorting centre pin to shield braid
    3) Not everyone who can solder has a soldering iron and solder ready at just the time they need it to fit a once-in-a-blue-moon aerial plug
    4) soldering the centre pin makes no measurable difference to the signal level or bit error rate compared to the method show. (I know this because I have done the comparison measurements)
    5) The method shown works. Reliably. For years. And it can be done with the minimum skill level by any semi-competent DIYer. It WILL give them a fully working connection. Better this than fudging it up with a bodged attempt at soldering that then causes more problems than it solves.
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2020
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  14. winston1

    winston1

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    Lucid. I agree with 1, 2, and 3. Not so sure about 4 in the long term once the centre conductor has oxidised but anyway my point about phantom powering is definitely valid.

    But for those who 1, 2, and 3 apply to the best method is to fit an F plug and adapter don't you think.

    I've lost count of the number of faulty coax plug connections I fixed before I retired. Since then I've had to fix two in hotel rooms before I could enjoy the TV.
     
  15. Lucid

    Lucid

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    If you're not sure about 4 then I invite you to do the same sort of test that I did. Compare the two methods and take readings for the signal level and bit rate error for several muxes. When I did it, the signal level in dB was identical, and there was no statistically significant difference in the error numbers.

    Have you considered that your concern about the oxidisation of the centre pin applies equally to F connectors? The centre pin is bare. It makes a touch contact with the female part of the first socket. The signals are up to the Gigahertz range, therefore the wavelengths are much smaller and so factors such as skin effect are potentially more significant. It would seem sensible to surmise then that surface oxidisation would present more of an issue for satellite signals than it would for DVB-T/T2 Freeview signals. And yet, no one is calling for some new kind of soldered satellite connector. We are not seeing hundred or thousands of people complaining that their satellite signals have been lost because the centre pin isn't shiny any more. I wonder then, is the concern about oxidation really a bit overplayed? Fitting an F plug with a Belling Lee-type adapter simply makes for a different style of connection. It wouldn't 'fix' the issue of oxidisation even if it existed.

    In addition, you'll know that RF signals can jump a gap. This is why a cable can show open circuit for DC and yet still deliver an RF signal.

    As long as the centre pin is in contact with the centre tube of the coax plug, and bending it as show plus doing a little crimp as shown pretty much guarantees that, then the rest of the concerns about oxidisation are just theoretical problems rather than real world issues.

    Your point about a DC connection is valid, but AFAICT, this isn't required here.


    Yeah, I have fixed a lot of poorly fitted or loose coax plugs too. I have been using the pigtail method for over 10 years. The number of call backs I have had for plug issues is Zero.

    Soldering coax plugs is fine for a professional installation where the type of install would benefit. For DIYers though, it's OTT in most cases
     
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  16. ericmark

    ericmark

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    I would say the big thing is kinking the cable before putting in the pin, with PL259 yes I will solder, but TV plug the plastic will not take the heat.

    As to the band pass filter shown, so many times found a lovely socket, but other end there is nothing, we all know there should be a similar device to combine the aerials but so often missing.
     
  17. winston1

    winston1

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    You have to be quick, and have many years experience.
     
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