Mysterious soil pipe blockage

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Yorkshire
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Have a bit of a strange soil pipe blockage issue affecting our upstairs en-suite bathroom and wondered if anyone had any ideas.

The initial symptom was the en-suite shower tray drain intermittently backing up. i.e. one minute it would be fine, the next minute you're in a paddling pool! This has been going on for some weeks but as there were no other symptoms, I put it down to a blockage in the pipe to the soil stack even though the intermittent nature was bugging me.

It seemed to be getting worse over the last week so I got around to investigating yesterday and the first surprise is the shower trap and waste pipe were pretty clear, so I decided to put a high volume of water down using the shower and loo flushes, and eventually, the water level backed up in the tray. It's a riser shower tray several inches off the floor and it soon became apparent that the water level in the loo was also rising - so its suggesting a partial blockage further down the soil stack and you don't see the problem until the stack has filled up.

This is where things get a bit odd........

We have a downstairs loo and main bathroom, so stopped using the en-suite toilet pending further investigation - and just used the shower on the basis that might help clear the blockage. Today, I can't reproduce the backing up no matter how much water I put down - suggesting the blockage has partially or perhaps even completely cleared. The problem is I can't see where on earth the water is going!

If you look at the diagram below, the soil stack for the en-suite is boxed in, in the hall about 8 foot from the front of the house and it's a concrete floor. There is an inspection point about three foot in front of the house with three inlets. Two definitely go to the downstairs cloak room sink and loo as I've put water through to confirm. The third seems to head off in the direction of the en-suite soil stack which would seem to make sense, BUT it's dry even when I'm pouring water down the en-suite stack by the gallon - and that is just plain weird.

The back of the house (a good 23ft from the en-suite soil stack) has a similar inspection point outside with two inlets - one from the main bathroom soil stack outside of the house, and the other from the kitchen sink waste. There is nothing in that inspection point either when water is going down the en-suite soil stack.

There is a large inspection cover as marked and that is a good 12 foot away from the soil stack. I've not been able to get this up yet and in any case, I imagine it might be surface water drainage rather than sewerage as the sewerage goes off in two other directions as shown.

Any ideas appreciated!



Blockage.jpg
 
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How does the stack for the en suite terminate at the top, does it go through the roof to vent to atmosphere or is it capped somewhere with an Air Admittance Valve? At the moment, if the water isn't emerging anywhere, I can only assume you're filling the stack up, but then with that amount of water, I'd be surprised if the head didn't push any blockage through.

Do you know if your floors are solid or black and beam?
 
V
How does the stack for the en suite terminate at the top, does it go through the roof to vent to atmosphere or is it capped somewhere with an Air Admittance Valve? At the moment, if the water isn't emerging anywhere, I can only assume you're filling the stack up, but then with that amount of water, I'd be surprised if the head didn't push any blockage through.

Do you know if your floors are solid or black and beam?

Stack is through the roof and vent to atmosphere. Agree on the head of water - its a power shower in the en-suite and it was still taking a while to back up which suggests the blockage was quite a way down the stack - e.g. where it curves to the horizontal or on the horizontal. Downstairs floor is just a solid concrete raft.

My only working theory at the moment is maybe the 3rd (dry) inlet in the front inspection point is actually capped and the en-suite stack goes off in some other direction, and I have indeed forced the blockage through - and I just haven't found where it is going yet. But it just seems so illogical when the front inspection point and downstairs cloakroom is so close.

Equally, if the 3rd (dry) inlet is the en-suite, and maybe the pipe has collapsed or something, I'm putting too much water down for it to soak into the ground.
 
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Some drain dye might assist in looking for where the exit point is.
 
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Some drain dye might assist in looking for where the exit point is.

Thanks. Yes - it might help if I manage to get that large inspection cover up and find its sewer. But right now, water is going down the en-suite stack by the gallon and not appearing in either front or back inspection points.
 
If its a plastic chamber, you should be able to see the face of the blanking cap in any unused inlets, and likewise should be pretty obvious if a pipe is connected. Do you know if all the drainage was laid at the same time or have additions be made subsequently to the property?
 
If its a plastic chamber, you should be able to see the face of the blanking cap in any unused inlets, and likewise should be pretty obvious if a pipe is connected. Do you know if all the drainage was laid at the same time or have additions be made subsequently to the property?

It will all have been done at the same time. The inspection point at the front is quite deep - a good couple of foot to the bottom - and looks like clay but I can't be sure. I've got a tiny USB camera on a cable that has illumination around it, so I'm going to try and rig that up on a pole and see if I can have a look up that third inlet tomorrow. Thanks.
 
Finally managed to get the large inspection cover up today and as expected, that is surface water drainage not sewerage. So with the en-suite sink tap left on, there is no trace of any water going through any of the three inspection chambers we have. My plan with the USB camera in the front inspection chamber failed as it's a tiny camera and its illumination simply wasn't enough - so I'm going to rig up some extra lighting over the next day or so and see if that yields any answers. But I have put so much water down from the en-suite, it rather suggests it is going some other route.

Has anyone had any success with getting detailed drainage/sewerage plans from local councils for their property? - our house is probably around 40 years old. I assume Yorkshire Water will only have the main sewerage mapped and not the connection to each property.

Thanks.
 
Doubtful Yorkshire water will have plans, as water companies only recently took ownership again.
 
Highly unlikely anyone will have mapping down to individual property level, even what the Water Companies have is often inaccurate. I've not studied the local plan to me in great detail, but apart from the confusion over direction of flow and size of pipework, there are also complete runs missing! I know as I worked on putting them in, 30 years ago... (How do you not know about a 375mm pipe and the associated manholes running down the middle of a road?)

I'd suggest you try a dye test, and see if that turns up anywhere. I'd also be checking the neighbours manholes as well, one unwritten rule of drainage, expect the unexpected...
 
I'd suggest you try a dye test, and see if that turns up anywhere. I'd also be checking the neighbours manholes as well, one unwritten rule of drainage, expect the unexpected...

Thanks. If I look at the neighbours, there is simply nothing of interest to the right of my diagram - i.e. the house adjacent has services up the far side of their property from us. The outlet from the inspection point at the back of our house goes to a larger inspection cover in the back yard of the house at the other side - but that's about your lot. So every logical argument (proximity, general direction, the fact you'd try and take the shortest route out from under concrete foundations) says the en-suite would be that third inlet at the front. Something weird going on for sure!
 

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