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Need a new multitool but not Starlock

Discussion in 'Tools and Materials' started by JayJay1978, 27 Mar 2019.

  1. JayJay1978

    JayJay1978

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    Not interested in Starlock as i kill tool many blades, I have a 12v blue Bosch and its all noise and no guts, I've got the 350W Fein but its on its way out so i need a 240v replacement.
    Which is the best non Starlock 240v quick release?
     
  2. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    If you are into trade duty tools then take a look at the Makitas (TM3000 and TM3010). I have a DTM51 18 volt cordless (quick release) and it has completely replaced my Fein FMM250Q, but I've used the TM3000 at work and it performed well enough to interest me in the cordless version(s)
     
    Last edited: 28 Mar 2019
  3. JayJay1978

    JayJay1978

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    I think it will have to be Makita, the Dewalt only seems to take open ended blades or can it be adapted to take all my Fein and Bosch attachments?
     
  4. Mate of mine just got the DeWalt and he's already gone back to the Makita. You can get an adaptor to take full ring OIS blades on the DeWalt however.
     
  5. opps

    opps

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    I recently got the Festool oscillating saw. It uses the starlock Max fitting but I purchased the adaptor to allow it take the standard starlock and the adaptor to allow it to use regular blades.

    It pretty much covers all bases.
     
  6. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Expensive bit of kit, though. Is it really worth the extra?
     
  7. £500 kit price? Never.
     
  8. opps

    opps

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    It was a birthday prezzie from the GF- I already had the smaller Fein FM250.

    The plunge base and depth stop attachments are pretty cool. I was lucky enough to get them for half price. You do however have to use the super long Festool blades with the plunge base. You can use any old blades with the depth stop and the fence.

    The Festool Vecturo is pretty much the same as the Fein FSC 2.0Q but they are similar in price. Neither is as powerful as the 450W Fein FSC 500.

    Worth the extra cost? Hard to say, I haven't needed to push it hard yet. In the past I had been toying with buying the Fein Supercut for the more demanding tasks but hadn't been able to justify the cost. It is definitely better than my old FM250 though.

    To date I have only used the Fein, Festool, Makita and cordless Ryobi. The Ryobi (although new) kept cutting out whilst cutting chip board flooring. The makita is the one sold at toolstation- you have to use an Allen key to change the blade and the motor is really loud, vibration is pretty bad as well. A friend that restores windows buys that one from toolstation because he knows it will fail after 9 months. He takes it back and gets a full refund and then buys another, rinse and repeat ad finitum.
     
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  9. opps

    opps

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    That is the price with the plunge/etc accessories.

    The Bosch GOP 55-36 is significantly cheaper and has a 500w motor but I have no idea of the build quality/reliability/ergonomics/etc.

    Personally, If I am going to pay a premium, I'd rather pay for the likes of Festool or Fein or even Mafele (I don't have any Mafele tools though). Are they always better? Perhaps not but in the majority of cases the quality is commensurate with the price paid. That said, they are often designed for precision and not as sturdy as some other less accurate brands. Great in a workshop but not suited for rolling around a van.
     
  10. For me at the price festool charge I could trade one off for the other. I'd want to be able to drag tools out bounced around in the back of a van and have them remain accurate.

    Otherwise they are no better than a brand new Makita, DeWalt or Bosch etc. Never once have I used to a festool piece of kit and thought it warrants the cost over something else I already own.

    I'm sure in some cases this will be evidently untrue but I'm yet to see it.
     
  11. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    There's a quick release version as well which has a tool-less cutter change (TM3010 corded - DTM51 cordless). Noise on these tools is far more down to the cutter you are using and the material you are cutting in my experience - they are all pretty noisy when under load on a cut.

    As to your mate burning out tools in 9 months, I'd have to ask just how much he's using the thing - the only one I've killed was a Fein FMM250Q, and that was down to the vibration eventually breaking one of the cable tags (bootlace ferrule) at the back of the switch. On the same job we also killed a company-owned Bosch GOP multitool as well (possibly because we had a guy using it 4 to 5 hours a day, every day, to do electrical cut-outs in 18mm plywood-backed plasterboard - an architect oversight). The Fein was repaired by soldering a new tag on the wire (biggest problem was finding such a tiny push-on bootlace). The firm simply replaced the Bosch as repair downtime was too great

    There are a few bits of kit - the Domino is one, but then that's a unique concept. I have a TS55 as well as the Makita DSP600 cordless saw (effectively a cordless SP6000) as well as having used company SP6000s quite a bit in the past. I'd say the Festool tool is marginally better than the SP6000, but I'd also have to agree that it's not £200 better than the Makita offering. My Fessy is certainly a lot more robust than the Hilti plunge/rail saw it replaced, though!

    Like you I'm really not certain about how much better a £500 Vectro will be than a £150 to £200 Makita or Bosch, especially as a good 70 to 80% of the work that I do with a multitool (e.g. access cut-outs in plasterboard, plywood, etc) doesn't require cabinet maker accuracy (and where it does a sharp chisel can often make for the appropriate finishing touch). Where greater accuracy is needed I find that by swapping to better quality blades (e.g. Bosch) I can generally achieve the desired result, but it's a complete waste of money to use a £20 blade on a low-accuracy cut-out which will never be seen by anyone
     
    Last edited: 1 Apr 2019
  12. opps

    opps

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    Hi JobAndKnock

    The Makita he uses is the TM3000C. It has an incredibly noisy rattle even before the blade touches anything. Vibration when using it is pretty excessive too.

    Admittedly he does push it hard. Other than trashing the Makita, he started out with the cordless Fein, killed two of those and was lent a FFM250Q by Fein- which he killed as well.

    His point of view, which I tend to agree with (to a degree) is that a professionally/industrial rated tool should be able to stand up to all day usage. He has never had any other power tools die prematurely, and he isn't the kind of person that abuses tools. He used to be a cabinet maker, for whom I once worked. He introduced me to Festool. I often use my Festool sanders for 8 hours a day with minimal rest time and bar one particular model (RTS400) they last for years. My oldest Festool sander, the (discontinued) DX93 delta sander is nearly 20 years old and has gone through 3 or 4 brush replacements. In terms of design it is directly comparable to an oscillating saw, however the stresses and work load are far lower.

    I suspect (read: would like to believe) that the Fein Supercut or Festool Vecturo would be better suited to his work pattern, I ain't l lending him mine though ;)
     
  13. JayJay1978

    JayJay1978

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    I don't know what to do now, I was going to get the quick release makita but not if its a noisy vibrating rattler like my 12v Bosch GOP.

    My 350W Fein works (bought in 2015) but it bogs down and looses full blade oscillation when I put any sort of pressure on it, like when I was plunge cutting a fixed worktop down its full width the other day I had to keep pulling back, its far different from how it used to be.

    It seems this started when I stupidly used a spray bottle to keep the dust down when I was grinding paint off a wall and the front got a bit wet, not soaking but enough to put surface rust on the locking pin.

    Its seated properly now but I wish I could get into the gearbox.
     
  14. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    You say that he doesn't trash tools then say that you suspect that he is using the wrong tool for the job...... I think that is the correct assumption, I don't use a multitool all day long, but if I did I'd be looking at one of the heavier tools like the Multicut (which I believe was originally designed for tasks like removing car windscreens = a heavy task)
     
  15. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    I think I'm about to eat my words on this. For a number of months I've been working on a listed building where it is necessary to sister or just replace some hundreds of largish joists (8 x 3s to 10 x 3s). To date we've clocked-up more than 500 done with maybe another 800 or so to go. The nature of the job means that I've needed to cut out a lot of stuff in really awkward places where it just isn't possible to use a recip saw, jigsaw, hand saw or any other type of saw I own or even just know about. The only solution has been to make the really awkward cuts with a high-powered multitool. None of the smaller tools we tried (Fein FMM250Q, Makita TM3010, Makita DTM51) were up to the task (noisy, too slow and gutless). In any case the price of Starlock blades meant that for us they just aren't economically viable, so all of the newer Bosch or Fein tools are out. I therefore bit the bullet and bought a Vecturo. This gets used with cheapish 68mm long blades (Sabrecut and Saxton) and has stood up well to the task despite getting roasting hot on many occasions. Now I know what you need a high power multitool for
     
    Last edited: 28 Jul 2019
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