Neighbour requesting I move boiler vent installed pre 2002..

[gasbanni]

Thanks for all the replies.

Just spoken to our old neighbours, who were lovely - and who have interestingly given me some information which was:

"You know the fence isn't where the boundary actually is don't you? Us and the people who lived in your place before just put a fence there as it was logical to do so - the boundary is actually about 2 feet the other way..."

So this could just turn into a boundary dispute- I think the response therefore 'could' be "You know that's not the actual boundary don't you?" and see what happens.

Of course, now I just need to try and find the EXACT boundary (and documentation to show this) - which is of course, a whole different and fun game!

ddm*

I would get them to put this in writing if they will,also if you could speak to the previous owners and get them to confirm things about the fence position it may prove useful if the house is fairly modern the deeds may well show where the fence should be as opposed to where it actually is.
Heavens forbid but if solicitors get involved it will cost you both.
Your best course of action may be to argue that the garden may be theirs
(if the fence is in the correct position) but the walls yours!and you will not allow them to build or attach anything to it. Nightmare..... not of your making its hardly your fault that the flues in the position its in. But it may not be wrong. Was the boiler in this position when the house was built ?

 

[gasbanni]

Just had a thought if it was wrongly installed and the fence and boundry are in the correct position get on to the installers hopefully you have documentation showing it was british gas !!!

Whatever happens tell em not to touch the part of the wall thats yours !

 

[ianniann]

Find out the facts, such as the boundary location, and then ask someone with legal expertise. The opinions of everyone on here is just that, an opinion, and worth approximately diddly squat.

I can clarify some facts concerning flue locations. There are minimum distances for a fanned flue from boundaries. The building regulations state 600mm from a boundary facing the flue. They also suggest (in the proposed 2010 revisions) that to avoid any potential statutory nuisance, the guidelines from the Condensing Boiler Assessment Procedures should be followed. These procedures, which are not building regulations, state 2,500mm from a boundary in the direction of the plume. None of this appears relevant to your situation since the flue does not point towards the boundary, but is either over your neighbour's property or not. There is an additional restriction of a 300mm horizontal distance from a boundary or corner, so in your case the flue would need to be a foot inside the boundary line. I have no clue how this affects your pre-existing installation. Like I said, get the facts and consult people with legal expertise.

 

[vulcancontinental]

They also suggest (in the proposed 2010 revisions) that to avoid any potential statutory nuisance, the guidelines from the Condensing Boiler Assessment Procedures should be followed. These procedures, which are not building regulations, state 2,500mm from a boundary in the direction of the plume. .

I'm glad to read that as it could have been interpreted in earlier drafts as 2500mm from a boundary whichever direction the flue discharged; even vertically!

 

[gasbanni]

Find out the facts, such as the boundary location, and then ask someone with legal expertise. The opinions of everyone on here is just that, an opinion, and worth approximately diddly squat.

I can clarify some facts concerning flue locations. There are minimum distances for a fanned flue from boundaries. The building regulations state 600mm from a boundary facing the flue. They also suggest (in the proposed 2010 revisions) that to avoid any potential statutory nuisance, the guidelines from the Condensing Boiler Assessment Procedures should be followed. These procedures, which are not building regulations, state 2,500mm from a boundary in the direction of the plume. None of this appears relevant to your situation since the flue does not point towards the boundary, but is either over your neighbour's property or not. There is an additional restriction of a 300mm horizontal distance from a boundary or corner, so in your case the flue would need to be a foot inside the boundary line. I have no clue how this affects your pre-existing installation. Like I said, get the facts and consult people with legal expertise.

It depends on what the regs were when it was installed, usually the regs are not retrospective. so current regs do not apply unless you have a new boiler fitted. If your boiler is non condensing condensing flue regs wouldnt apply anyway ! Check your deeds speak to your neighbours and dont consult legal advice until its absolutely necessary. Diddly squat applies to new regs on old flue positions. dont worry about them at the moment just find out where the boundry is !

 

[JohnD]

quite apart from regulations about boilers...

surely your neighbours are entitled to build a conservatory, or an extension, or a greenhouse, or anything else on their land. If your flue discharges onto their land, and their building happens to obstruct it, that would be your hard luck and you would have to stop using your boiler or have the flue changed.

Right?

 

[3549950]

thanks to everyone. Some real good advice; be it challenging, or supportive.

I think in answer to the question of "Well, it's ultimately on their land, and they have the right to build anything they want on their land.", well, yes. And I would feel a bit annoyed if it happened to me. But the reality is that I don't have the money to move it

If everyone (building control/local inspector etc) say "Well, it shouldn't have been installed like that - and is contrary to building/gas installation regs" then I'll sell something to pay for it. It's illegal, and that's that.

However, if legally it's not an issue (I know that opinion here is divided), then discussion with the neighbours will I guess go in the direction of "Okay, what capacity are you asking us to move it?" It's just a "We'd prefer if it doesn't go into our garden" Well, I'd prefer that too, but it does, and I guess when it was installed it was legal to do so. If you'd like it moved, then I'm prepared for you to move it; I'll put up with any building works when *you* move it.


Of course, I would like to be a good neighbour and move it so it doesn't flue into their garden (if, it transpires, it is their garden!) but, well, I can't afford to do that just out of goodwill. And if regulators say "Well, there isn't a legal reason why you have to move it" then sadly I won't feel compelled to do it (partic as our neighbours haven't been particularily neighbourly themselves!)

Tomorrow will be a call to the local building control chappies to get them to have a pop round. I'll also speak to the about the boundaries. Like I have mentioned, the boundary apparently where the fence was put up, so I'll get more details of this from our old neighbours.

I'll see if I can post a sketch as well. Thanks again for everyones input; both challenging and supporting.

ddm*

 

[htgeng]

If you can, take some pics showing the flue and where they are going to put the conservatory. You can upload them here.

 

[1john]

Are you suggesting that they want to join the conservatory to the wall that belongs to your house??

You need to clarify where the actual boundary lies.

 

[Agile]

There have been a lot of comments from many people on this forum about your position.

However, from my reading of the situation you have never made it clear exactly where you think the boundary actually should be.

The wall of your property which the flue is mounted, do you think that you own land beyond it ? If so what distance?

What is usually assumed to be the boundary is usually the centreline of the party wall which you share with your neighbour if the property is semi or terraced.

Without these simple details we cannot be very helpful.

However well anyone gets on with their neighbours, its very foolish to "lose" part of your land by placing a fence in a position which reduces the size of your land unless there is a legal agreement to cover it.

There is no such thing as "squatters rights" in relation to land. Its called adverse possession. The time period is 12 years and the rules are quite complicated for many to follow and the average high street solicitor is unlikely to have much understanding.

Tony

 

[3549950]

Thanks Tony - in fact thanks everyone!

I've tried to do a bit of sketch - hopefully this will make it a bit clearer.

Untitled

• 3549950
• 12 Jul 2010
• 1

 

[3549950]

As you can see there is that kind of 'offset'.

My old neighbour said that the boundary is actually about 18 inches to the right of the fence that was erected. Which would put it inline with the internal party wall. I don't think however, that my new neighbours would even listen if we told them the boundary is actually 18 inches into their garden! I'm assuming the fence position almost dictates it

I guess this would make sense (who knows why the house was divided with that offset internally!)

I guess I'm still a bit confused about the party wall thing. If the boundary is indeed along the fence, then they must own the outside of the wall (the offset bit where the flue is), and us the inside of the wall - I'm assuming this is how it works?

Oh I wish I just had the cash to just move it, just to be nice!

 

[Agile]

Thats an interesting situation. Its not very common so there will not be much case law but there will be some and D Hailsham might be able to rersearch that but he must be on holiday at the moment.

Based on your sketch, it seems the fence line is almosy midway between the main party wall and the rear party wall created by the offset.

Based on what you have shown, I would say that if the fence position is NOT documented clearly on the Land Registry plan ( most likely ) then there is a good argument that the actual boundary in the garden and the rear of the house is in fact the line formed by the rear party wall.

If he is building an extension then it probably does not need planning consent so you cannot object to that.

It will need some form of building consent but there is no laid down procedure for anyone to make complaints apart from representations. However, there are different ways to obtain building reg approvals now and some effectively retrospective so dont hold out much hope.

Most people would say that as there is a strong argument that the external boundary is NOT where the fence is then a solicitors letter to them creating a dispute over the boundary position and asking them NOT to build on the disputed land. That assumes there is no other evidence of the exact boundary position.

Its interesting. Where is D Hailsham when he is wanted!

Tony

 

[Agile]

Can you do an expanded drawing of the boiler and boundaries with dimensions?

You cannot discharge or have ANY part of the flue within 300 mm of the centre line of the party wall. At least thats the way that I interpret the regulation.

It may be that the boiler is still too close based on how you have drawn it.

Health warning:

Solicitors cost money. A lot of money!

It would be cheaper to move your boiler than engage a solicitor !

But if a strip of garden in involved then depending on property prices a solicitor might be justified.

Tony

 

[3549950]

Thanks Tony,

Yes the deeds pretty much show a straight line going from the front of the house to the back, not taking the internal wall offset into account.

Therefore, I guess there is a challenge that says "The rear boundary is inline which the inside party wall".

I think from a 'show willing' perspective, we're also keen to point out that as an act of good faith, we make no intentions to reclaim this bit of the garden, and are happy for them to have that extra 15SqFt. However, we would request that they do take no further action to build on this.

The building control chappie this morning was patient, but not massively helpful, saying pretty much "Look, you can build a property anywhere you like, even in the middle of someone elses garden if you want. If it's well built, we're happy. But the consent for it to be there is all a civil matter down to everyone and the courts to argue."

Due to our financial situation, while we cannot afford to fix this now we will be able to in less than 12 months. When we bought the house it came with planning permission to extend, which lapsed but we're considering reapplying for. If this is granted, then we'll be happy to move the boiler (which we didn't need to do) but as part of planned building works could happen. Problem is of course, that it won't be within 28 days! However, I guess if we offer to move it as and when we have the cash to do this extension, then again I suppose we're 'showing willing'

But at the moment, well I guess it comes down to boundary then!