neighbours gutter empties onto our hedge

[larrylamb9]

After cutting back our hedge, I can now see that my neighbour (or a previous resident - which is where the complication comes in) has routed their rear outhouse guttering drain straight into the our side of the fence behind the hedge.

His outhouse guttering overhangs on to our side of the boundary (semi detached) and the drain gulley goes straight down close to the boundary wall and empties on the garden behind a hedge.

Our garden is north facing and this is very close to the house so it is very damp and mossy because of this. I have asked him if he would move it (as tactfully as is possible) but he says that he didn't put it there and it has been like that for decades (it is upvc by the way) so I have to accept that is how it is (we are in a semi). He did offer to extend the pipe on our side so that it drains a long way away from our house, but I really think it should be simply moved to his side where it is an not extended for 20 feet. He says he can't do that as there is a flower bed on his side.

I did found this environment agency info, which seems clear enough - he has to take reasonable steps to protect my property from his drain water:
http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=103

However, it doesn't say what the law is if this drainpipe has been in place for decades - would it then be unreasonable to ask him to move it to drain on his side.

 

[big-all]

if the down pipe is on your land it is trespass
if the water sheds onto your land it shouldn't do

could you extend the pipe and aim at his garden

tell him its causing damp in your house and iff he doesn't sort the problem he will be responsible for the cost off repair

tell him he is responsible for the damage but iff he removes the problem you will bare the cost off repair

 

[larrylamb9]

Thanks

However, what if this drainpipe really is say 30 years old and was done by someone else. Am i still entitled (legally speaking) to ask the present owner to move it back to his side?

cheers

 

[big-all]

yes unless its in writing in your deeds its trespass
its an alteration to the origional building so would definately be mentioned if a formal agreement was reached

 

[larrylamb9]

I've read that after a certain number of years, regardless of what laws or regulations were infringed at the time, the 'new' layout becomes normal - isn't this true?

 

[big-all]

this is trespass not planning or building regs

 

[big-all]

have a look on the garden law forum
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

 

[larrylamb9]

acquired a right by prescription is what I think he has claimed...

 

[big-all]

i would aim more for the damage being caused
he has a responsibility not to damage your property

 

[PAFCBOY]

This is not trespass.

If the original owner of your house looked on and did nothing whilst the neighbour expended money building the outhouse and downpipe he has effectively acquiesced on behalf of himself and his successors to the downpipe. There is said to be an estoppel.

After 20 years of use the law will recognise the right to discharge water from the pipe onto your land is now a legal easement in favour of your neighbours house. This is the law of prescription - see Land Registry Practice Guide 52 on their website.

If prescription doesn't help your neighbour then section 62 of the Law of a Property Act might help him.

You are stuck owing to the lack of action by your predecessors.

This can only be fair can't it. If no one takes action in a reasonable timeframe then they are stuck with consequences. Put yourself in your neighbours shoes.

If you want it changed you will need to come to a neighbourly arrangement suiting you both .... but your neighbour holds all the cards I'm afraid and it is likely you will need to fund any change.

 

[noseall]

It is a statutory nuisance and is in breach of the public health act.

Tell him to shift it or else you will seek to prosecute.

 

[larrylamb9]

This is not trespass.

If the original owner of your house looked on and did nothing whilst the neighbour expended money building the outhouse and downpipe he has effectively acquiesced on behalf of himself and his successors to the downpipe. There is said to be an estoppel.

After 20 years of use the law will recognise the right to discharge water from the pipe onto your land is now a legal easement in favour of your neighbours house. This is the law of prescription - see Land Registry Practice Guide 52 on their website.

If prescription doesn't help your neighbour then section 62 of the Law of a Property Act might help him.

You are stuck owing to the lack of action by your predecessors.

Sadly this sounds like you know what you're talking about! Oh dear.

Can I just clarify - you don't agree with the other posters ideas? And the drain has to stay on our side?

The problem is his solution is to extend the drain to further into our garden, which is daft.
The (most probable) fact is he put this pipe here about 10-20 years ago but there is no way of saying for sure the year, unless I get carbon dating of the UPVC pipe!
So if a civil action rested on me proving it was less than 20 years old then that would be very difficult.

The solution that stares me in the face is why he doesn't move it onto his side where it is, and then extend down his side of the fence and garden to drain there - is that unreasonable?

 

[larrylamb9]

It is a statutory nuisance and is in breach of the public health act.

Tell him to shift it or else you will seek to prosecute.

You don't agree with PAFCBOY then? I can't go lobbing demands like that, I can't afford (nor do I want) and court case!

 

[big-all]

we all give the information to be as accurate as we can but we are only as good as our total knowledge

you need to take all points off view and decide what your happiest with then do a lot off research along those lines

 

[PAFCBOY]

This is not trespass.

If the original owner of your house looked on and did nothing whilst the neighbour expended money building the outhouse and downpipe he has effectively acquiesced on behalf of himself and his successors to the downpipe. There is said to be an estoppel.

After 20 years of use the law will recognise the right to discharge water from the pipe onto your land is now a legal easement in favour of your neighbours house. This is the law of prescription - see Land Registry Practice Guide 52 on their website.

If prescription doesn't help your neighbour then section 62 of the Law of a Property Act might help him.

You are stuck owing to the lack of action by your predecessors.

Sadly this sounds like you know what you're talking about! Oh dear.

Can I just clarify - you don't agree with the other posters ideas? And the drain has to stay on our side?

The problem is his solution is to extend the drain to further into our garden, which is daft.
The (most probable) fact is he put this pipe here about 10-20 years ago but there is no way of saying for sure the year, unless I get carbon dating of the UPVC pipe!
So if a civil action rested on me proving it was less than 20 years old then that would be very difficult.

The solution that stares me in the face is why he doesn't move it onto his side where it is, and then extend down his side of the fence and garden to drain there - is that unreasonable?

I am qualified in property law.

I imagine the recent rainfall has exacerbated an issue which perhaps under normal rainfall you wouldn't have noticed? Perhaps if we return to normal weather it won't be a huge issue? Perhaps you can live with the problem? Imagine the hedge likes a drink under normal rainfall conditions?

What I would say is don't get too fixated over the issue and fall out with your neighbour. It doesn't help anyone. All too often I've seen things like this escalate until they are out of all proportion to the problem. Don't litigate: You have to live with your neighbour afterwards ... and the stress and expense is simply not worth it and people forget when they go to court there's only one winner but both expect to win! Oh and the loser pays the other sides legal bill too.

I think what I'm saying is offer to pay for the solution that satisfies you. Build a soakaway perhaps? Pay to have the pipe channelled as you'd like if your neighbour agrees.

I may be wrong but I'm reasonably confident that your neighbour holds the cards on this one. Had the thing just happened - totally different - but the law would probably recognise the neighbours right of running if rainwater after such a long time.