New Apprentices!!!

[oharaf]

I've had the dubious pleasure of lecturing apprentices the past few weeks.

I am deeply troubled by their distinct lack of enthusiasm and / or commitment to their chosen career.

I've met probably in total 50, out of the entire lot 3 have shown any commitment.

The vast majority complain from morning til evening about wanting to go home, having to learn something, having to remember things and generally not giving a damn if they pass anything or not!!!!

How the hell their employers put up with them I have no idea.

What happened to the times when they got strips torn off them by the boss for doing jack all at college.

The 3 that have impressed me the most are fantastic; interested, ask questions, apply themselves, are not satisfied with OK installs.

The 2 lads are clearly going to be brilliant the 1 girl is out-standing, during revision today she was answering every question and spotted every deliberate wrong answer I dropped in. I would give my hind leg to be able to employ her one day.

What has gone wrong? What do the colleges need to do? Would love to hear your opinions as I would like to take them to the college and say this is what the industry are saying

 

[bernardgreen]

I sent this to an electronics industry magazine and it was printed. it almost certainly applies to some colleges of further education today.

You ask ""Why have our academic institutions failed so miserably. ?""

The institutes are aiming to use student for the best results at the school / university door. Little concern about the students future after they are no longer potential successes for the institute's position in some league table.

In 1960 when I decided to make Physics my main subject in school the master addressed the class on the first lesson of the year.

" I can teach you to pass the A level exams with ease or I can teach you to solve problems in general. The second option will still get you through the A levels but you will have to work during the exam. "

He explained there was a difference between learning to pass exams on the curriculum and learning skills and how to apply them. Did we want easy A level passes or the skills for long term success ?

The class, with a bit of guidance from the physics master, choose the second option. Looking back I realise that all the lessons in most subjects followed the same principle. The school wanted to create useful people rather than get good results in league tables. As it happens it did both though there were furrowed brows in the exam rooms.

 

[JACKC]

My thoughts are that the youngsters of today think the country owes them a living and gone are the days that they appreciatte how lucky they are to be learning a trade. We have 2 at our work, 1 is mustard the other doesn't give a t055. When mustard qualifies he will get a position, the other will be told to go away. The company claims all sorts of money from the government for "educating these 2". When they will have to pay them it will be a different story. There is a tech training college near me that takes on school leavers, trains them and then finds jobs, 1 in a 100 is worth employing as they generally are good for nothing. Oharaf, you have just experienced the way our trade is being taught these days and I agree it does need sorting. I would give my hind teeth to have some of the oppurtunities these layabouts have these days. Bring back the old days when your mentor could give you a reminder of working responsibilities

 

[conny]

I know some people say there is no such thing as 'the good old days', everything was hard etc but when I was an apprentice the three things I had were;
1/ Respect. For the guys teaching me including tutors, skilled men, supervisors etc. and also myself.

2/Responsibility. To carry out my tasks/duties with the responsibility that had been placed on me to do things to the best of my ability and correctly.

3/Commitment. To apply myself to the job in hand 100% and learn how to do it safely/efficiently and to a high standard of competency.

We have 3 appo's at work, 1 shuffles around all day not interested at all just wants the pay packet.
Second one thinks he knows everything and claims to have qualifications from his last employer in any subject you name; 17th edition regs, (not BS7671 ),(got it), trained first aider,(got it), trained fire fighter,(got it), manual handling, overhead crane use, hand driven electric vehicles, flt (reach & counter balance), confined space, use of ladders, use of slings/shackles etc, contractors site safety passport the list is endless but he has them all! Till you ask him to show you the certs or borrow his red book then he forgets where they are at home. In his last job he wired up complicated control panels and single handed almost rewired the whole site complex!
Not bad for an 18yr old who passed his driving test on the Monday, came into work in his little Polo on Tuesday and immediately reversed into the window shutters then shot forward and smashed into the steel railing fence.
He was sent to a customers premises to pick up 2 small motors for repair, just put them on the back of the wagon, no straps or chocks, drove up to security, waited for the barrier to go up then drove through before it was fully raised. Result?
1 barrier ripped out of its mountings, estimated cost of repair around £2,500 1 3.5tonne wagon with a bent 'h' frame and disjointed side panel.

Third guy is willing to do anything you ask him, (I won't ask anyone to do something i'm not prepared to do myself), will listen when you explain why you do something a certain way and will ask questions if he is not sure or he thinks of an alternative.

I know which one the rest of us want to stay on when they come out of their time.

 

[IJWS15]

My experience fits with bernardgreen

I was taught to solve problems - degree in engineering not really a problem (apart from fluid mechanics which a lecturer (professor) of fluid mechanics described as a "black art". That was in the late 70s. Similarly the head of dept warned us in year 1 that memory alone would not get us through the course - we had to learn to apply what they taught us to new situations)

My son graduated from University two years ago, only in the third year was he getting to the point where he could apply his knowledge to problems he had not seen before. He would ask me for help and I would look at something entirely new to me, read his notes and then explain to him how he should approach the problem, in one case he was the only one out of 150 who got the right answer - an Engineer to dealing with university level accountancy/ecomomics issues ! ! ! He thought I was clever - in reality I can just think for myself.

It comes down to teaching them to pass very simple exam questions, not to be able to apply what they have been taught to new situations.

The motivation issue has always been there!

 

[bernardgreen]

The motivation issue has always been there!

But I think motivation is being reduced by the present social environment and traing / teaching methods.

Why be motivated to work and survive by one's own effort when social handouts will ensure that even the most un-motivated person can survive without any effort beyond that of asking for a handout.

If people were taught to think and work out answers then some of the un-motivated might work out that a bit of motivation will provide them them with a means to survive with a better standard of living than those who are only motivated to sign on the dole and accept hand outs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why be motivated to work and survive by one's own effort when social handouts will ensure that even the most un-motivated person can survive without any effort beyond that of asking for a handout.

I often suspect that people who say things like that have never actually lived on benefit. In much the same way as those who bang on about how the only difference between prison and a 5* hotel is that they tell you when you're checking out have never actually been in prison.

 

[sparkybird]

Presume they are youngsters and not coughing up the college fees themselves nor loosing a days pay for being at college?

With age comes the revelation that knowledge is useful and will go on to earn you money - as they say, youth is wasted on the young!

Doesn't suprise me at all the the girl is top of the class. It was the same at my college (!). If you're a female you I think you have to put in 110% to show that you are serious.

SB

 

[bernardgreen]

I often suspect that people who say things like that have never actually lived on benefit. In much the same way as those who bang on about how the only difference between prison and a 5* hotel is that they tell you when you're checking out have never actually been in prison.

You are correct in that I have never lived on benefit. Even when made redundant I did not claim benefits but set out to create a new source of legal income for myself and my family.

I have nothing against benefits for those who have genuine need of support as a result of matters that the person has no control over.

I do object to people sitting at home watching TV that has been paid for out of benefits when they have given nothing in return to the community because they are simply too bone idle to lift a finger.

There was a elderly chap on dis-ability income who did a lot of voluntary work to ease his conscience about having to "live of the state". Why can't some of the able body benefit supported couch potatoes spend an hour of two doing some work for the benefit of their community.

Rant suspended.....

 

[resq]

I agree with bernardgreen, only been unemployed once for 3 months hated every minute of it and took the first job that came along didn't care what it was just that I was out there earning.

Unfortunately the situations described are not just isolated to trade apprentices, its the whole system. I am not a tradesman I am a resuscitation officer and lecture to a variety of pre grad and post grad nursing and medical students. The quality of the students is falling rapidly, the reason is bums on seats, the education centres want the money so will accept just about anyone who can achieve the academic qualification (and some who can't). When I applied back in the day it was like a job interview with similar expectations.

Just to redress the balance the students I lecture too have learnt the hard way that if they are late then they are refused admission to my session. They have to attend to graduate so a make up session is arranged for a Sunday morning at 06:00. Funnily enough I've only had tp do this once and my reputation is enough to get them to focus.

 

[JonoPashley]

The ones who are actually committed are usually the ones who cant get an apprenticeship for ****.

 

[Steve]

I've seen it even in my business. People come for a job, but aren't bothered about it. No passion or commitment. Always phoning in sick, annoying customers, annoying management, its just "something to do" to get their parents or the job centre off their back. We had one guy who once picked up a customer, carried him to the door and told him to go away! Some real practical jokers out there.

 

[SparkyNinja]

The motivation issue has always been there!

But I think motivation is being reduced by the present social environment andtraining / teaching methods.

I can vouch for this.

I've been lecturing on a sessional basis for the past year and have found the main complication to be the college's communication amongst staff.
As I teach evenings I only have a couple of young students. My average student is around late 20's, and some are almost double my age.

My main difficuilty has been within the practicle workshop, where facilities and materials are scarce. I've had to actually bring in waist from work so they experience different bits of equipment.

The training method used is to accomplish a simple tick next to a task and to complete all of the tasks. To me this doesn't encourage an understanding of their practical work for them or myself. Also they can't retry tasks that they do not feel as confident with.

I have been asked to come back in the sept but have insisted that I try out a new scheme with my new first years. It will be an award-like scheme where the excessive tasks like cutting of tray, trunking will be slimmed and covered here and there. Then they can get more involved in the wiring of circuits, and testing. This will keep their brain working and keep them interested. 10 weeks of cutting tray and trunking makes them loose interest.

 

[kmeeres]

Whispers very quietly.
How about National Service ?

Old school leavers certificate with basic subjects compulsory.
Option to continue in other subjects or off to boot camp.

Oh and i would reintroduce old licencing laws as well.

 

[Steve]

Oh and i would reintroduce old licencing laws as well.

¿Que?

I assume you mean alcohol licensing?

The latest edition of the licensing laws are the strictest they've ever been.