New boiler and flue, and some basic pipework - quote?

[Softus]

...getting 2 would enable me to weed out the possible ridiculous first quote (way to high or way to cheep).

Sorry M-o-N, but I'm a bit tired of making this point on this forum, so if I come across as a bit jaded it's because, well because I'm a bit jaded.

I don't think that people will ever stop taking part in what seems to me to be as ridiculous a circus as dancing girls walking on big spheres and clowns throwing buckets of confetti. The whole concept of multiple quoting is based on the [false] premise that you can spot the cowboy amongst the indians, but if they're all cowboys then you're stuffed from the beginning.

"And I say get one estimate from one tradesperson/company that you trust. "
A lot of people do not know such a person and resort to the internet asking imposable questions.

In which case you simply deploy the principle of vicarious trust...

Step 1: Ask friends, relatives, colleagues and neighbours to recommend someone whom they've personally used and would be happy to use again.

Step 2: Engage that person to do the work.

Step 3: Pay them what they ask for.

Oh I know, your eyes are popping out at the idea of paying without bartering, but just imagine if the only people doing any work had to be recommended because of their previously good work and fair pricing. Those whose work was too poor or prices too high would immediately stop getting custom. Easy innit!

 

[gremlin16]

Oh dear,
WDIK. I saw your post the first time. Which I did find quite amusing. However you may be missing a customers point of view.
They may have been stung by unscrupulous traders more than once before.

Its blo*dy annoying the amount of times OP come up with
" They may have been stung by unscrupulous traders more than once before"

How about role reversal, how many times have tradesmen been stung by rogue customers.

 

[HowlinWilf]

Well, I certainly seem to have got a lot of people going!!!

Thanks for all your replies. At least, some of them!

The problem I have is the idea of paying a tradesman (which I am myself) nearly a thousand pounds a day for doing some very ordinary work. Being a tradesman, I have a realistic idea of what's involved. I've just returned home from a week away fitting a large kitchen - 2 plasterers, a chippy, an electrician and a plumber were also on site. I am NOT some unrealistic, whingeing customer determined to do an honest man out of his well-earned pay.

I simply object to some specialist trying to take advantage of his specialist position and RIP ME OFF. I mean, £800 - £900 a day??? Is this difficult to understand?

Anyway, another quote was waiting for me this evening - £1500 for the work plus boiler, flue, TRVs and a flush - total £2500 (and same time-estimate). Guess my questions have been answered.

----------------------------------------------------

HARALIAN - Post your address, and I'll send you a Stanley blade (for free, plus instructions).

WDIK - Don't know what the 'W' stands for, but the rest is obvious.

Master of None - I get it! MILF rhymes with Wilf! Wow, you're a poet! (Any blues fans on this site?). No, it can't go in the garage, 'cos you can't put a flue over a neighbour's property. I wasn't looking for a 'quote', which is why I wanted some 'perspective', eg. somebody who had had similar work done for a reasonable price (not very difficult to understand, surely?).

Softus - We live in rip-off Britain, where unscrupulous experts regularly abuse the naive, the gullible and the ignorant, and your scorn for any attempt to find good value shows exactly how we have come to be in this position.

 

[Softus]

We live in rip-off Britain

Actually, we don't. We just live in a place where the lazy and idealistic trot out the same old tired cliches and never do anything to change attitudes.

...where unscrupulous experts regularly abuse the naive, the gullible and the ignorant, and your scorn for any attempt to find good value shows exactly how we have come to be in this position.

On the contrary. My "scorn", if you have to call it that, is reserved for people who can't do one second's worth of joined up thinking before 'phoning up and trying to get three free quotes. Frankly I envy my customers, because they're fortunate enough never to have to worry ever again about being mistreated or overcharged.

 

[HARALIAN]

Only the blade??....I'll cut myself without he knife too !!!!On a serios note ... Thank goodness you got a prper quote......Now how about a medium cabinet???

 

[simond]

Anyway, another quote was waiting for me this evening - £1500 for the work plus boiler, flue, TRVs and a flush - total £2500 (and same time-estimate). Guess my questions have been answered.

This man is going to do the job for £1000 less.

Do you seriously think that a good plumbing heating installer makes £1000 profit on an installation? You are in cloud cuckoo land.

Your new friend is highly unlikely to deliver the quality of work that will be comparable. This forum is full of people who have got someone very cheap in, and are still paying for the consequences.

Things you are likely to find (based upon looking at hundreds of cheap installations over the years) are;

- Lack of technical knowledge on the product (no time for training)
- lack of mechanical skills
- short or non existent powerflush/system cleansing
- disregard for building regs and GWN
- no Part P
- no system bypass
- wiring standards poor
- flue in the wrong place
- dirty system/poor installation resulting in no warranty

In short, when you get undercut on a job by a grand in your cabinet making industry, you know how it is done. I am surprised you can't see what is coming.

 

[HowlinWilf]

Simond - I've just about had enough of the ad hominem insults.

Cloud cuckoo land? It was his quote, not mine. I'll be checking his CORGI registration and references in due course.

Its called competition. Clearly this is a concept that many in the plumbing/GI trade have precious little understanding of.

I understand your bile and recognise a well-practised intimidatory spiel when I see one - you're trying to protect your golden goose. As soon as some of your number adopt the concept of value for money and an honest fee for an honest job, your goose is cooked. Well, save it for the next little old lady who has surrendered all hope of fair dealing or fat-a***d lawyer who abandoned his notion of value at the same time as his principles.

And, yes, I do understand how competition works - I reduce my mark-up on materials and lower my profit level. I DO NOT do an inferior job, because I have a reputation to maintain. And, when it comes to work on a gas installation, the same HAS to be true - or goodbye CORGI registration.

(Apologies to any of you who have fat a***s).

 

[giblets]

It always tickles me when people post up saying that "the quote seems high" or "am I being ripped off with this price?".

What they really mean is that the price quoted is more than they want to pay after having looked on the internet and found that they can buy the boiler for £XXX. They assume the difference between £XXX and the quoted price is what the chap is going to earn - far from it I'm afraid.

IMHO the only people who can say whether a quote is high or not is another professional who has looked at the job and all it entails.

 

[HowlinWilf]

HARALIAN - A medium cabinet? It'll be ready for you at the end of next week. Shall I pop it in the post or will you collect?

 

[gavinda]

It always tickles me when people post up saying that "the quote seems high" or "am I being ripped off with this price?".

What they really mean is that the price quoted is more than they want to pay after having looked on the internet and found that they can buy the boiler for £XXX. They assume the difference between £XXX and the quoted price is what the chap is going to earn - far from it I'm afraid.

IMHO the only people who can say whether a quote is high or not is another professional who has looked at the job and all it entails.

nail squarely hit

 

[mickyg]

boiler, flue, trv's and all materials for a grand, take off a ton for copper, fittings and sundries, leaves you with £900. I bet they are some top quality products in use. Think I'm gonna go get me some shares in B&Q

 

[namsag]

So i take it everyone who has slagged the guy off just accept the first price for work in there on home from a person they don`t even know. And think well if thats how much they say it is it must be right.
I very much doubt it,

Be honest with yourself how many would be happy paying a guy a £1000 a day to work in there house( yes i know its not all profit but people don`t look on it that way) . I wouldn`t

Example of job doing next week, woman living by herself very trusting 1 quote from a guy and was giving him the go ahead till her workmate told her to phone me

Take sevowarm elite out Ideal optia back in same place using existing gas same hole etc condensate would take 10 minutes to fit

s plan and pump into airing cupboard using existing cylinder. already has trvs
£4300 Materials around £800 . so around £3500 for a days labour no wonder the public have a distrust of this industry.

Oh and that was not what she really wanted but the guy had told her she could not have a combi in upstairs airing cupboard as there was no where for flue to go so she had to have what he said.
Guess what she is getting exactly what she wanted and for a lot lot less.

 

[simond]

understand your bile and recognise a well-practised intimidatory spiel when I see one - you're trying to protect your golden goose. As soon as some of your number adopt the concept of value for money and an honest fee for an honest job, your goose is cooked. Well, save it for the next little old lady who has surrendered all hope of fair dealing

I don't recall quoting for your job.

You seen to confuse 'profit' with the legitimate overheads of running a business.

And if you think all CORGI qualified tradesmen are of a similart standard, you have a lot to learn. I should know, I do the recruitment for my firm.

You find out the hard way

 

[giblets]

And, yes, I do understand how competition works - I reduce my mark-up on materials and lower my profit level. I DO NOT do an inferior job, because I have a reputation to maintain. And, when it comes to work on a gas installation, the same HAS to be true - or goodbye CORGI registration.

With the greatest of respect to your profession, HowlinWilf, I very much doubt that the cabinet making industry has as much choice in the availabilty of materials as the gas industry. I appreciate that you can make a cabinet from pallet wood or finest oak and your price will reflect that but we have the choice of buying boilers that will do exactly the same job (produce heat) and will range in price from £375.00 to £1100.00.

Also CORGI registration has nothing to do with reputation - it is about following a set of rules. Providing those rules are followed then everything is hunky dory with CORGI. They are only interested in Gas Safety - nothing else!

Perhaps I should also point out that, in order to be a cabinetmaker you are not legally obliged to be a member of an organisation as we are.

 

[HARALIAN]

Council of Registered Cabinet Makers or just Association of Registered Cabinet Makers??? Lets move on now guys !! xx ( I hope it int a vizo)