New boiler not compliant with Gas Safe requirements

[russellpeters]

Hello Forum Members,

I bought a house in January 2013. The house was sold to me by a "professional developer" who had done a number of works to the house including fitting a new boiler, new radiators and new plumbing for the central heating.

As part of the conveyancing process our solicitor asked for and received a Gas Safe certificate. The business and the engineer listed on the certificate were/are registered in the Gas Safe register.

We have been having some boiler issues for a few weeks (see my post here). I had a plumber / boiler installer (with a great reputation on CheckATrade) come in to take a look. This good boiler installer told me that the works did not comply with regulations on a number of major points.

Some of the issues that he pointed out are:
1. Boiler had not been properly commissioned and had just been switched on after installation.
2. TRVs had not been fit on any of the radiators.
3. Condensate pipe was not of the right gauge.
4. Condensate pipe had not been drained into a soakaway or a drain.
5. The hole where the flue pipe was routed through the brick wall to the outside of the house had not been filled in / sealed.

He also remarked that the boiler was a cheap, low-quality one to begin with and was in most likelihood quite damaged because the central heating had not been flushed nor a filter put in.

Irrespective of whether I get a new boiler or not this is going to be a very expensive fix for me.

Have any of you been in this situation? Do you have any advice on how I should proceed? Specifically do I have any legal recourse against the original installer who effectively committed fraud to get the Gas Safe certificate?

Thanks.

 

[transam]

how do u know the boiler was not correctly commisioned ?

Trv's perhaps the original customer did not want to pay for them ?

What boiler is it ?

were does the condensate go or drain to ?

 

[ALEC1]

there are no boiler police, just a lot of opinionated installers, I too have several strong opinions..it might not be to his standard, and not the way he would do things...



where does the condensate run if not into a drain or soak away?


The only serious issue is sealing the flue in...

 

[russellpeters]

Thanks for your response.

how do u know the boiler was not correctly commisioned ?

Trv's perhaps the original customer did not want to pay for them ?

What boiler is it ?

were does the condensate go or drain to ?

The boiler commissioning sheet in the boiler manual was not filled up. Plus the boiler installer who I asked to take a look deduced this by looking at the innards/settings of the boiler... I am not sure exactly what he looked at.

Quite likely. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it is now mandatory to have TRVs at least in areas like bedrooms. This one might be a responsibility of the seller and not the boiler installer / plumber who did the central heating plumbing, I am not sure.

The boiler is in Independent Ideal C30

The condensate pipe is a plastic pipe that goes to the outside of the house via a hole in the wall. This pipe ends about 20 cm above ground level close to the brick wall. The condensate drips out of this pipe onto the wooden decking which we built a few months ago.

 

[transam]

Plenty of people we work for are on a limited income & have had to have there boiler renewed as a "distress" purchase do not want to pay for trvs & why should they.

Flue should be sealed correctly. your condensate is not terminated correctly should go into a drain or soak away min 500mm ish I think ?? from the building

combustion /commisioning should be recorded & present at the property & from April 2014 it will become mandatory.

 

[russellpeters]

Thanks for your response.

there are no boiler police, just a lot of opinionated installers, I too have several strong opinions..it might not be to his standard, and not the way he would do things...

My understanding of the Gas Safe requirements are that they are exactly that - requirements.

As far as I understand the 5 issues that I have mentioned in my original post are clear violations of Gas Safe requirements (and please do correct me if I am wrong). Irrespective of whether the original installer agrees with the usefulness of those requirements and whatever his opinions and standards might be, by law and by virtue of the fact that he is on the Gas Safe Register and has acquired a Gas Safe certificate, he is obliged to follow those requirements.

As a tradesperson plying a particular trade he has failed in satisfying the minimum standards required of him. Surely I am entitled in claiming compensation from him for faulty service provided?

What do you think?

 

[dcawkwell]

The boiler was probably chosen because it fits in a cupboard.
TRVs aren't a problem if the place is small and you have
a wall thermostat.
Flue should have been sealed and condensate should terminate in a drain.
But these are easily sorted.
For a gas safety certificate this wouldn't include items like TRV and condensate it is only concerted with gas safety.

 

[russellpeters]

I wanted to add something to what I have said before. This particular boiler installation is a botched, incomplete, rogue job at many levels. This is not a case of an installer making a mistake (which is human and understandable and acceptable as long as the installer is willing to fix it). This is a job done badly either deliberately to cut corners or by an incompetent installer who simply does not know better. Both of these are unacceptable to me and I hope and believe would be unacceptable to the larger population especially other boiler installers.

Am I ****ed off? Yes, absolutely. I am looking at a big bill to get the issues fixed and this is in addition to the inconvenience of not having a properly functioning boiler and the time spent in trying to fix it.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that I should get 1-2 quotes from reliable installers, have a chat with the original installer and ask him to compensate me for an amount equal to the cost of getting it fixed. If he does not wish to do that I am ready to take him to Small Claims Court.

I am open to advice and suggestions. Thanks.

 

[Boilerman2]

As the installer did not do the work for you I can't see that he owes you anything, if anyone you should be going after your own legal team who did the conveyancing or the Surveyor that did the Survey (assuming you had one!)

 

[russellpeters]

dcawkwell, thanks for your feedback.

The boiler was probably chosen because it fits in a cupboard.
TRVs aren't a problem if the place is small and you have
a wall thermostat.
Flue should have been sealed and condensate should terminate in a drain.
But these are easily sorted.
For a gas safety certificate this wouldn't include items like TRV and condensate it is only concerted with gas safety.

The house was completely renovated and the boiler cupboard is new. The cupboard could easily have been bigger if required.

There is no wall thermostat either (which is another thing the plumber I called pointed out). The house is a 3 bedroom Victorian house over 2 floors (about 110 meter square) so I don't think it qualifies as small. In any case aren't TRVs a requirement (at least for certain areas like bedrooms)?

Yes, a Gas Safe certificate would not include items like TRV. I believe (I will do more research and get back to the forum) that this is a responsibility of the seller and not directly of the original installer / plumber.

 

[transam]

Alot of those in gas Safe are a waste of space, plenty of em could not practice what they preach pencil pushers & paper shufflers

trv's have nothing to do with them, its building regs

 

[ianmcd]

why do you not have a properly functioning boiler ? nothing you have listed except the commissioning part would affect the working performance of the boiler ?

 

[russellpeters]

Thanks for your feedback, Boilerman2.

As the installer did not do the work for you I can't see that he owes you anything, if anyone you should be going after your own legal team who did the conveyancing or the Surveyor that did the Survey (assuming you had one!)

The boiler does owe me something because it is on the basis of the Gas Safe certificate he acquired and supplied that I, as a buyer, assumed that everything was properly done and that everything would last a reasonable amount of time without large number of issues or expenditure.

My conveyancer did his bit by asking for and getting the Gas Safe certificate but once that certificate is received he (and I) will implicitly trust that certificate. After all what is the use of the certificate if an independent verification needs to be done even if the certificate is present?

I did have a structural survey (building survey) done but things like electrics and boilers are clearly out of scope for a surveyor since it needs specialist knowledge to evaluate. Certified boiler technicians go through multiple levels of training to be certified to do what they do. How can it be expected that I, my lawyer or my surveyor would be qualified to assess the correctness of a boiler installation?

Thanks.

 

[russellpeters]

trv's have nothing to do with them, its building regs

Thanks for this useful tip transam. Yes, I think TRVs are probably required by building regulations for energy conservation reasons. I will try and read up more about this.

 

[russellpeters]

why do you not have a properly functioning boiler ? nothing you have listed except the commissioning part would affect the working performance of the boiler ?

Hello Ian,

The central heating system has a lot of debris/sludge and was most likely not flushed when the new boiler was installed.

Please read more about the problems with my boiler here - //www.diynot.com/forums/plumbing/burner-in-combi-boiler-goes-on-off-when-hot-water-used.381144/