new ceiling light keeps blowing the fuse.

[Craigo]

Hi, I fitted a new simple one bulb ceiling light (not rose) with just an earth live and neutral setup. However I have 2 live, 2 neutral and 2 earth coming down from the ceiling. I therefore put the 2 earths together, 2 lives together and 2 neutrals together. The problem is that when I switch it on, it blows the fuse and doesn't work. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks, craig.

 

[ColJack]

how many times do we have to go over and over this..

isn't there something in the sticky about this? :sigh:

oh well here goes again..

why can't you people make notes of the wiring you already have before taking it appart?

you DO NOT HAVE 2 NEUTRALS...

you have 2 reds which are lives.. THESE ARE NOT TO BE CONNECTED TO THE LIGHT.. they go in a seperate terminal block..

you have ONE BLACK WHICH IS A NEUTRAL.. this goes to the blue wire on the light

you have ONE BLACK WHICH IS A SWITCHED LIVE WIRE BACK FROM THE SWITCH... this should have red tape or sleeving of it and go to the brown wire on the light..

you have 2 EARTH WIRES.. these MUST have green and yellow sleeving on them and go to the green and yelluw wire on the light, or the metal of the fitting..

 

[stephenf8542]

Coljack you have over 3000 posts, howmany do you think are explaining this problem

 

[Craigo]

thanks for your reply, but it does not help entirely because the new light is not a rose, it therefore doesn't have any wires, it only has terminals for Earth, Live and Neutral. You assume that "you people" didn't make a note of the existing wiring, but in fact, I did. Unfortunately the rose that I took off had 9 terminals and all the wires you mentioned, whilst the new light only has 3 small terminals for Earth, live and neutral. I am therefore none the wiser. Thanks, craig.

 

[JohnD]

I have some sympathy with Coljack. What did you do with the 9 wires then, if you only had 3 terminals?

This is a common mistakke, but I don't suppose you will do it again. Poor old Col has had the same mistake brought to him so many times that he has lost patience. He is forgetting that most people only do it once.

pop down to the DIY shed and buy some choc-block and a choc-box to put it in, that will give you plenty of terminals to connect the wires to. Alternatively you can use a junction box. It must be accessible for testing and maintenance afterwards, so don't plaster it in.

 

[ColJack]

one black in to the live, one into the neutral, the 2 reds STILL into a seperate trminal block and the earth wires to the earth..

and sorry for the rant, I'm having a bad day.. my back is killing me and I have a bad cold..

although, if you took off a ceiling rose, you could quite clearly see that one black WENT to the blue wire, one WENT to the brown wire and the 2 reds into the LOOP section in the middle, not connected to anything else..

so it's not exactly rocket science to realise that the blacks aren't both neutrals..

he doesn't say 9 wires, just 9 terminals.. 8 on the front and 1 earth going on a standard rose...

what you had ( minus the "supply to next light" bit.. )

what you end up with ( again minus the "supply to next light" bit.. )

 

[stargazer]

Craigo, do you understand what is going on here?

 

[Craigo]

Thanks for this info, I feel that I am getting there. The only problem I have now is that the two black wires are identical with no red tape or anything to destinguish one from the other.

ColJak, I appreciate your help and I'm sorry you don't feel well but although this might not be rocket science for you, I'm a qualified accountant and didn't know that there would be two black wires, with one mascarading as a neutral whilst actually being a live. I dare say that if you looked at the accounts that I work, it would not be immediately obvious, but they're not rocket science to me. Thanks, craig.

 

[stargazer]

sorry for the rant, I'm having a bad day.. my back is killing me...

I suggest you get some treatment for that

 

[ColJack]

ideally you need to find out which is which, but since we're assuming you don't have a multimeter, then the following advice is true under these circumstances only..

it doesn't really matter which black is which if your new light does not have screw in lightbulbs..

 

[Craigo]

Thanks ColJak, it does have a scew in light bulb, so I guess I'll need to try both blacks. Hopefully I will live to write the result. N

 

[ColJack]

with only 2 blacks it's fairly easy to figure out which is which..

put the 2 reds in the L of the light, and ONE black in the N.. ( the other in a seperate block ) if it lights then you have the neutral, if it doesn't then you have the switched live...

please mark the switched live with something..

 

[Craigo]

That is most helpfull. I'll report back later, but thanks again for generously giving your time. Craig.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks for this info, I feel that I am getting there. The only problem I have now is that the two black wires are identical with no red tape or anything to destinguish one from the other.

But they were distinguished from each other by their positions in the ceiling rose, which you looked at, in which you saw that the existing wires were distributed between 4 entirely separate terminal blocks, all of which you thought it would be OK to completely ignore and do something different with them.

ColJak, I appreciate your help and I'm sorry you don't feel well but although this might not be rocket science for you, I'm a qualified accountant and didn't know that there would be two black wires, with one mascarading as a neutral whilst actually being a live.

It wasn't masquerading as a neutral - with your own eyes you saw that it was connected to the live of the light before you disconnected it all.

I dare say that if you looked at the accounts that I work, it would not be immediately obvious.

I don't suppose it would.

Equally though I don't suppose that ColJack would be so stupid as to work on the accounts, add up randomly selected amounts and say "there - that's your net profit" when he knew damn well that he didn't have the right knowledge.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

how many times do we have to go over and over this..

Until people stop thinking that they don't need any knowledge whatsoever before they start fiddling with their electrics....