New consumer unit - placement and tail spec/safety

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Hi there

I live in an oldish (100 years) upper floor maisonette. The consumer unit is by the front door in the hall (on the ground floor - as it's a maisonette it has it's own entrance). It's quite old, and only has five breakers. Although the place is about 100 sq.m, it is only 7 metres wide for the front two rooms, then narrows further to 5 metres. I think around 25 metres long in total! Sounds odd I know, but it seems to work.

Anyway, the kitchen is nearer the back, and while I'm doing a complete refurb, I thought it would make sense to put it nearer the kitchen (where I will need high current circuits for both an electric oven and an induction hob), plus numerous kitchen sockets, not to mention outside light for back garden and fused connections for boiler, fridge, dishwasher etc, plus a new ensuite. The front of the property has much simpler requirements, just a socket and a lighting circuit for a bedroom, living room, and main bathroom.


So I have a few questions:

1) Is it possible to run a wire+conduit of some sort (SWA + earthed pipe?) about 20 metres, in places running under floorboards, in partition/stud walls, and over ceilings? I'd rather not have surface mounted conduits. Obviously, the idea is to make it safe enough to not drill/hammer into a 100A unfused wire, and to provide enough cross-sectional area not to cause too high a voltage drop or heat output. I read somewhere that this should be fine so long as some kind of break is installed after the meter (to minimise the chances of killing someone). I read conflicting reports over is whether the SEC has to do this, or whether any qualified sparky can do it.

2) To save costs, I plan to physically fix the CU in place, and run the cable myself, but not connect either end. Then hopefully a qualified person can visually inspect the course of that cable through the building, possibly do some tests with a meter etc (continuity, resistance etc), and then make the connection, thereby saving the cost of what's essentially the physically work of chasing out etc. I would then proceed with most of the post CU wiring myself, and finally get it inspected by building control at various stages. Does that sound like a plan? I'm degree educated in electronics (which I completely understand is a different kettle of fish in terms of lethal current!) - this isn't to boast or because I think it's special - just as a bit of background. I'm pretty methodical, do my research, and like all DIYers, love the challenge and reward of it.

3) The only aesthetically pleasing places I can think for the new CU in the refurbed area is either above the back bedroom built-in wardrobe (essentially a void, so you'd just see a hatch, not a box), or just a metre further up, in the attic. The building regs man said that in the attic would be passable, but obviously if something trips it means opening the hatch. However, above the wardrobe would require a little step ladder anyway, so thinking I might as well just pop it in the attic, right near the hatch, with one of those push button battery operated night lights. Thoughts/opinions welcome.

Anyway - my first post, so hello, whatever the answers!

Marcos

2)
 
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Don't know the answer to your first two questions but I'd say having a CU in a loft isn't a terribly good idea. Even if you know where it is and can get to it not every one would be able to, what happens if you need to get to it in a hurry - oh I know, thats the one time your foot slips on the ladder...

Not even sure I like the idea of it being above a cupboard where you need a step ladder to get to it. Surely there are better places.
 
As you want to move the CU to a new location the correct way is:

Meter tails to a switch fuse BS1361 then to the armour. Some attention needs to be paid to earthing but that depends on the supply type (TN-C TN-S TN-C-S TT etc). I would work out the total load on the CU apply diversity, work out the total length and then work out the cable size from there to ensure the voltage drop complies. Do not forget to ensure earth continuity with the armour sheath as well.

I would use a metal clad switch fuse with two stuffing glands for the tails and then the armour and a gland from that.

As its an 80A + submain I would install it in metal round conduit where it passes in walls and just run it through joists in the walls.

Location of CU. I would not put it in the loft. If it did have to go there I would install self maintained emergency lights the entire way to it so you can find it in the dark.

MK do some flush mount CU's that I would use if you wanted cosmetically pleasing: http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/products/ranges/rangelist.asp?RangeID=1051

All this has to comply with part P and BS7671.

Adam
 
Thanks Adam

Like the idea of the flush mounted CU.

Not sure what you mean by 'apply diversity'? Do you mean allow for the fact that the total load isn't going to be the total of all appliances, since many are off a lot of the time (fridge/freezer etc)?

As for fittings 'glands'/fuses etc, I won't be doing that - sparky can do that. All I want to be sure of is that I've put the right cable size and conduit in, ready to be inspected and connected up. Basically I don't want to touch anything pre-CU, but I do want to save money on the monkey work of chasing out, making good etc.
 
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Thanks Adam

Like the idea of the flush mounted CU.

Not sure what you mean by 'apply diversity'? Do you mean allow for the fact that the total load isn't going to be the total of all appliances, since many are off a lot of the time (fridge/freezer etc)?

As for fittings 'glands'/fuses etc, I won't be doing that - sparky can do that. All I want to be sure of is that I've put the right cable size and conduit in, ready to be inspected and connected up. Basically I don't want to touch anything pre-CU, but I do want to save money on the monkey work of chasing out, making good etc.

If that is the case get a spark in (best bet I find is to ask freinds family if they have work done can they recommend any one) as he will design the circuit and tell you the cable routes, cable size, cable type for you. Let him know that you want to do the donkey work and he should mark out where everything needs to go tell you the best methods. He has to sign to say he designed it etc so its best he does the design. Get him in first ask him what cable size and type and if any additional earth cables have to be run and then do the donkey work.

I worked with a builder a while back we did the design selected cables, cable runs, safe zones, he did all the donkey work cut the chases back boxs we went in ran cables, he even drill all the joists for us. Hence we was on site half the time and he saved on our labour. Did this on a few jobs.

I prefer jobs where the customers want to do all the manual labour for me :D

There is nothing wrong in moving the CU.

Oh and there is a new thanks button ;)

Adam
 
Certain suppliers have a 3m rule regarding distance between the supply head and the CU.

This can be overcome via a 100A switch which becomes the demarcation point between you and the supplier / DNO.

The obvious cable route is in to the loft and over and down to a CU in a serviceable location. Serviceable might mean paying attention to Part L which requires the CU to be at an accessible height for a disabled person (and kids !!!). If the refurb has the LABC eyes, you should discuss this with them.

Generally the cable is going to be 2 or 3 core 25mm SWA which is a pain to bend. Trying to run it through joists at floor level will be hard graft and requires a bit of sense (do the hard, every 450mm joists route 1st, even if it the middle bit of the run).
Earth would be the armour of the SWA / or a core and armour (if 3 core used)- subject to the building MET being co located with the CU.

Personally I'd consider other alternatives. If the hall wall can take the recess depth of the flush CU then why not keep it there= you could always hang a picture over it, being careful where you nail or screw :LOL:

The mains head will still be where it is, so in the area there's some 'mess'.

Did a job a while back and the guy simple covered it all up with a radiator cover. Hidden, but accessible works well.
 
Marco, you have been concentrating on the route etc for the main feed.

I trust you have also remembered that all of the circuits that currently start and finish at the existing fuseboard will have to be re-routed to the new CU position.

How will you do this?
How will you join the new cables to the existing ones?
Don't forget they will have to be routed in safe zones.
 
Thanks for all your responses peeps:

@TalorT

Yes - I realise all the other circuits will need to be re-routed, but in actual fact, that's the whole reason for moving the CU in the first place.

I'm refurbing the whole flat - just focussing on the back half first, so I can get that livable before I rip out everything in the front too.

If I left the CU in place, I'd have to run all the kitchen and ensuite circuits no less than 20 metres, underfloor boards and in partitions.

If I put the CU in the attic above the kitchen, all the major circuits can be easily distributed, less than 3-4 metres, for the kitchen and ensuite. That would leave only two circuits for the front half - socket and lights (possibly a third for the bathroom sockets, just to be on the safe side). Seems to be a much better option for me.

As for CU placement - I'm still veering for the attic, since IMO it's not that difficult to access, with a built-in hatch ladder and battery powered light as emergency, especally if the CU is right next to the hatch. Certainly the BCO for my area said it was fine.

It also makes adding new circuits in future much easier, since it doesn't need to be boxed in or recessed in any way, and I can run cables under the attic boards and simply drop them down.

@Chri5 - I see what you're saying about the SWA flexibility, and if it's so stiff it can't take the route I want, then I may not have a choice. However, for the reasons stated above, I definitely want to move the CU much further back in the property, not just for aesthetic reasons.
 
If I left the CU in place, I'd have to run all the kitchen and ensuite circuits no less than 20 metres, underfloor boards and in partitions.

Makes sense to me. I did a job a while back where fitting a sub DB at the back of the property was easier than running cables 30 meters for two RFs two lighting, one radial. If you do want it in the loft look at some self maintained emergency lighting and a suitable location for the test switch. This way you can illuminate the route in case of supply fail. There cheap and you can forget about them just test them every 6 months.

SWA can be a pain to bend. But it can be done. I have in the past ran it in a channel in a wall and swept it into the floor.

Adam
 
(possibly a third for the bathroom sockets, just to be on the safe side)..


:eek:

Tell me that is a error, please

Hehe - yes, an error. Well spotted.

Of course, I *meant* for two shaver sockets in a zone 2 area in the bathroom.

That, and a couple of 13-amp 3-pins, so I can plug in the TV and dry my hair in the bath :p

EDIT - In all seriousness, by 'safe', I meant maybe putting those shaver sockets on their own circuit, just in case I did do something stupid, it might give me an extra chance. Or maybe it's just overkill.
 
Not sure if those units are suitable for use with external 12v luminaires, they also only illuminate on supply failure i.e. non-maintained.
You can buy SELV units with batteries specifically for use with 12v lighting, installed a couple a few weeks back. Only downside is they were not cheap - about £90 each.
 

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