New doors in timber frame house no cavity closers used and insulation put in cavity. Help!

[catseyes83]

We have a timber frame house with brick skin. Our French doors were getting damp on the plastered reveals we believe to be cold bridging as the doors are in the outer skin.

We hired a builder to put in new doors and open up the reveal to insulate and help against cold bridging.

We have been working during installation and not been able to check every detail but he has removed the original timber cavity closer, shoved 4 inches of Celotex into the cavity and closed up the reveal with plasterboard and plastered.

When I asked him did he fit a cavity closer he asked me to define what I meant as he hasn’t heard of them. Builder for 40 years ‍

There’s a huge draught coming round the skirting and it’s freezing.

Is our only option to hire someone else to cut it al away again, pull out insulation and retrofit a cavity closer? Can they be retrofitted?
Thank you

 

[Bonni]

Sounds like no vertical DPC installed

 

[catseyes83]

It’s so confusing. Is that the same as a cavity closer? He apparently nailed some dpc to the open cavity but only over the open bit.
Most things I’m reading say it has to be insulated with foam or something but with a timer frame cavity does that not need to stay empty? The cellotex could sweat against the timber frame where it’s stuffed between the wood and the brick right?

 

[^woody^]

The cavity should be closed/sealed at reveals to maintain air tightness - ie stop air leakage and draughts into the room. There may be a separate DPC.

A proprietary closer or flexible insulation/foam so that any movement of the frame still forms a tight seal.

 

[catseyes83]

Thanks the whole thing has none of that..

 

[catseyes83]

The cavity should be closed/sealed at reveals to maintain air tightness - ie stop air leakage and draughts into the room. There may be a separate DPC.

A proprietary closer or flexible insulation/foam so that any movement of the frame still forms a tight seal.

Look at how non closed or even close to sealed this mess is but yet it’s “how it’s done and you won’t have any issues with it”
Why did I believe that someone with 40 years experience of the being a builder would mean they would know what they were doing!!?

 

[^woody^]

That exposed brick on the inside is why you are getting damp.

 

[catseyes83]

Would cavity closers be able to be retrofitted with the insulation removed to solve that or is there anything else we can consider?
Going to have to lose the £4k for this and try to start again but really don’t want to have to buy new doors again.

I don’t trust that I know how to find a decent builder as I want sure this one was a decent one with plenty of experience but really seems quite clueless.

 

[noseall]

Would cavity closers be able to be retrofitted with the insulation removed to solve that or is there anything else we can consider?

No. The issue is that the frame was not fitted far enough back towards the room. It's a crap fit.
Some cleverly placed vertical DPC along with strategically placed dabs or foam adhesive - when re-fixing the reveal plasterboard, will prevent future issues.


Basically, it needs a 150mm wide DPC sandwiching between the insulation and the masonry, with about 30-40mm of the DPC left sticking proud. All gaps should then be foamed up. The reveal plasterboard should then be dabbed or foam fixed, so that the excess DPC is trapped and folded against the masonry and that the dabs should try not touch the dpc. Foam should be ok as it will insulate better.

 

[JohnD]

Did you say he's been a builder for 40 minutes?

 

[catseyes83]

He runs the company he’s almost retired in his 70s and been in business since his 20s.

It’s a complete mess and he’s insistent it’s correct. It’s freezing in here and I’m scared the insulation is going to sweat and rot the timber frame.

 

[catseyes83]

Is it another builder I need to redo this and what do I ask for to ensure it’s done right?

I asked have you worked on timber frames?
Are you fensa registered?

 

[Deluks]

The insulation appears to end before it reaches the floor, that massive hole underneath would explain your draught.

40 years experience means nothing if you're a know-it-all who refuses to learn.

 

[catseyes83]

No. The issue is that the frame was not fitted far enough back towards the room. It's a crap fit.
Some cleverly placed vertical DPC along with strategically placed dabs or foam adhesive - when re-fixing the reveal plasterboard, will prevent future issues.


Basically, it needs a 150mm wide DPC sandwiching between the insulation and the masonry, with about 30-40mm of the DPC left sticking proud. All gaps should then be foamed up. The reveal plasterboard should then be dabbed or foam fixed, so that the excess DPC is trapped and folded against the masonry and that the dabs should try not touch the dpc. Foam should be ok as it will insulate better.

The doors are further back now that they were. They had to angle grind out our concrete floor base and cut back our carpet. Doors on before these were flush to the outside.

They did put some dpc over this but. Thing else until they drilled the plasterboard into the timber frame and plastered over it.

Nothing stopping air flowing round over or under and it’s risking the timber frame rotting and it’s freezing.

 

[catseyes83]

The insulation appears to end before it reaches the floor, that massive hole underneath would explain your draught.

40 years experience means nothing if you're a know-it-all who refuses to learn.

Yep there is no insulation down there at all.

We asked him to remove it and do a cavity closer but he tried and couldn’t do it so said this was our only option.

Concerns are cold getting in
Heat getting out
Timber frame getting wet