New ring circuit from socket

[lofthelp]

Hi I want to put 3 double sockets in my loft,
Is it ok to go from a socket upstairs and do a new ring circuit from that.

I have 3 sets of wires in the socket I want to go from, 2 our live, 1 is dead .
Can I put 1 of the live wires out the socket into a junction box follow it around and go back into the same socket ?

Any help would be much appreciated thanks.[/b]

 

[lofthelp]

Anyone got any help out there.[/b]

 

[rjm2k]

Probably better moving this to the electrics section!

What you are talking about is extending the ring, not adding a ring. There is a section on the wiki which explains how to do it.

 

[riveralt]

Hi I want to put 3 double sockets in my loft, Is it ok to go from a socket upstairs and do a new ring circuit from that.

No.

First of you need to check whether you upstairs socket is actually a ring final circuit or a radial circuit. Wiki will explain this to you.
If it is a RFC then you have the option of extending the upstairs ring final circuit or adding a fused spur from an existing socket to cater for your additional 3 sockets in the loft.
Invariably it is easier to add a fused spur than extending an existing ring final circuit.

I have 3 sets of wires in the socket I want to go from, 2 our live, 1 is dead .
Can I put 1 of the live wires out the socket into a junction box follow it around and go back into the same socket ?

Assuming you have a ring final circuit three sets of wires can mean many things.
Do you have three red/brown, three black/blue and three earths? Or do you have one of each?
If you have three of each then this socket is not suitable to create a fused spur unless you can remove what appears to be an existing spur already.
If you have one of each then this socket is already a spur and you cannot spur from a spur.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have 3 sets of wires in the socket I want to go from, 2 our live, 1 is dead .

How can 1 be "dead", if they are all connected together?

What testing did you do, and with what, which led you to think that one cable was dead?

Can I put 1 of the live wires out the socket into a junction box follow it around and go back into the same socket ?

Junction boxes need to be accessible.

Also, be aware of the rules for where cables can be buried, and that if the existing circuit does not have RCD protection you may not add new sockets to it.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

 

[JohnW2]

I have 3 sets of wires in the socket I want to go from, 2 our live, 1 is dead .

How can 1 be "dead", if they are all connected together?

I would suspect that the OP disconnected the three cables from one another, and then discoved that the two ring cables were live, and that one which had been a spur was 'dead'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[lofthelp]

Hi all thanks for the help.

They is 3 brown 3 blue and 3 earth wires in the socket. The reason I need to put one set into a junction box is because adding more wires to that socket would be to bulky and they would not fit.

So 1 set into junction box, into 3 new sockets and back to the same socket would be a ring circuit plus the same amount of wires in that socket.

 

[riveralt]

They is 3 brown 3 blue and 3 earth wires in the socket. The reason I need to put one set into a junction box is because adding more wires to that socket would be to bulky and they would not fit.

It would also be wrong on a ring final circuit.

So 1 set into junction box, into 3 new sockets and back to the same socket would be a ring circuit plus the same amount of wires in that socket.

No.
You cannot do what you are saying - stop trying to extend the ring and focus on adding a fused spur.
Remove or utilise the 'dead' cable. If you remove it add 2.5mm ² T&E to the now 2 cable socket and run that cable to a Fused Connection Unit rated at 13A - you can then run the three sockets from there.
Your new sockets should be RCD protected - check you Consumer Unit to ensure that RCD protection is in place otherwise you will need to add it to the circuit - which is relatively easy.

 

[lofthelp]

All sounds good what you are saying .

But my problem is I already have my new ring circuit set up and ready to go.

A friend is sending his mate around in the morning to have a look for me.

Thanks for all your help will let you no what he say tomorrow riveralt.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

But my problem is I already have my new ring circuit set up and ready to go.

I think your problem is, you are not taking any notice of the information being offered, what is the point in asking a question, then going gung ho before you understand the configuration of the circuit you have and what can and what cannot be done to it!

A friend is sending his mate around in the morning to have a look for me.

Are they competent enough to offer you informed advice?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No.
You cannot do what you are saying

Subject to accessibility of the JB, of course he may.

Why do you think otherwise?

Remove or utilise the 'dead' cable.

How do we know it's not being used for something already?

 

[riveralt]

No.
You cannot do what you are saying

Subject to accessibility of the JB, of course he may.
Why do you think otherwise?

Having now seen the diagram of the work completed I think I will stick to my original thoughts.

 

[ericmark]

Likely the easy way out is to remove the dead wire and put it into a new back box next to existing socket and then take a supply from existing socket into a fused connection unit (FCU) in the new back box and then feed the old dead cable and all new sockets from the FCU.

If not already RCD protected then use a RCD FCU so all new cable and sockets are RCD protected.

There are many different methods you could use but only a single un-fused spur from a socket and you already have one (the dead cable) and only one device from that spur however if that one device is a FCU then from that there is no limit on how many other devices can be added. (As long as volt drop etc is not exceeded)

 

[lofthelp]

Before you ask jimmy is self employed shop fitter and does all electrics in new shops.

He has looked what I have done and this is what he has come up with.

From socket up stairs into junction box , to double socket , to F.S for 1 light, to double socket , to F.S for another light, to double socket and back down stairs into double socket.

Plus he said I will need to jay hook the wires in a safe place in loft.

I will post a picture of diagram of the job.

 

[lofthelp]

No.
You cannot do what you are saying

Subject to accessibility of the JB, of course he may.

Why do you think otherwise?

Remove or utilise the 'dead' cable.

How do we know it's not being used for something already?

All done now up and running , yes I have sockets working in loft just need to go and buy my two wall lights now and I will be a happy man.

Thanks for all your help everyone , but you all told me to not use J.B apart from ban all sheds it's looks right you where right on this. A big thumbs up mate.