actually, it's a discussion about whether there is any such thing as a woman; or if it is just a term that any person can pick up or drop according to how they feel.
New Zealand
- Thread starter transam
- Start date
actually, it's a discussion about whether there is any such thing as a woman; or if it is just a term that any person can pick up or drop according to how they feel.
Sponsored Links
- Joined
- 9 May 2020
- Messages
- 7,395
- Reaction score
- 136
- Country
It's a discussion about a transgender athlete.
If you want to extend it to other issues, that is your choice. But for, it was about a transgender athlete being allowed to compete.
the athlete is just an offshoot of the fundamental question.
The women athletes believe that there is such a thing as a woman; it is real; it is not just a "feeling."
and that therefore they should not be elbowed aside and prevented from competing for the chance to win championships and gold medals by large, strong people who have claimed the title for themselves.
You're the one who didn't know, or care, that a person with cock, balls, testosterone and male muscle mass can declare themselves to be a woman and gain a women's prize.
Sponsored Links
It still shouldn't be allowed
no he never has
hence his un wavering support for some of the vilest anti woman regimes on the planet 
There should be a separate catagory for biological males who want to identify as females.
They should compete in sport as transgender, prisons should have separate wings for them as well, this would protect female inmates from abuse.
They should compete in sport as transgender, prisons should have separate wings for them as well, this would protect female inmates from abuse.
- Joined
- 9 May 2020
- Messages
- 7,395
- Reaction score
- 136
- Country
As said, sex isn't binary.
Some believe it is. The evidence suggests otherwise.
They aren't 'claiming the title for themselves'. They're competing for it, just like the rest of the competitors.
Why not save your extrapolated claims until they have won.
And remember that there is no way back for them, if they wish to retain all that they've won.
It isn't as simply declaring your sex. There are tests to be conducted and passed.
You're making silly claims which ignore the process and the complex subject that is involved.
- Joined
- 9 May 2020
- Messages
- 7,395
- Reaction score
- 136
- Country
Just like JohnD did, you're resorting to absurd claims and extrapolating about my opinion on other issues.no he never has
This thread, and my comments are related to a transgender athlete competing, with the express agreement of the relevant committee, after passing their tests. I have not expressed support for the athlete, nor expressed objection to her. I've merely presented counter arguments to the emotions and opinions expressed.
This thread is not relevant to transgender people in general, nor to women's rights in specific.
Let us not use this issue to promote bigotry against transgender people. That was transam's intention, don't fall for it. Transam has frequently expressed his bigotry against transgender people. Just like other issues, he is exploiting this issue to promote that bigotry.
Just like other issues, that are not binary, i.e. if you don't deride that, you must be supporting this, don't make the mistake of assuming that because I have not objected to one issue, that I must be supportive of a whole raft of other issues. That's a perverted and strawman argument. That's the tactic of the desperate, who have exhausted their rational argument and are relying on inaccurate, unsubstantiated allegations.
- Joined
- 17 May 2012
- Messages
- 10,789
- Reaction score
- 852
- Country
Even if that means female athletes that have spent their adult lives training for an Olympic Games miss out, because a previous male national champion takes their place?
Where is their inclusivity?
What would happen if 10 more men transitioned for this event? The end of women in sport.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 9 May 2020
- Messages
- 7,395
- Reaction score
- 136
- Country
If they're biological females, as decided by medical tests, what category should they compete in?
It isn't simply about self-identifying, there are medical tests to allocate the sex in which they compete.
How many more will make this absurd comment that it's just about self-identification? It isn't!
You cannot just self-declare as female and compete in female sports.
Currently, sport has only a binary choice. Therefore athletes and committees are subject to this binary choice. you either exclude someone because you can't decide on their sex, or you make what might be an imperfect decision, that does not suit everyone. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.
On this issue in particular, we don't know how many transgender athletes have not been allowed to compete in their chosen sex. Similarly, we don't know how many athletes have not been allowed to compete at all. So we are discussing an issue without all the evidence available.
Just like paralympians, they were, at one time, not allowed to compete. Now that society and sport has advanced to that point that they can, a whole new industry has been created.
- Joined
- 17 May 2012
- Messages
- 10,789
- Reaction score
- 852
- Country
Not just like the rest of them ...
- Hubbard is in the highest weight category for women, there are not many other woman (when I last looked) in that category
- Hubbard has been competing just a like a woman, who spent 20 years doping & taking illegal substance to boost their sporting performance
By comparison, Tatiana Kashirina (top ranked in the world), one of the largest women who also competes in the 87+ group, weighs 108.25kg.
Still think it is fair?
But hopefully we'll see women kick the old guy's arse this year. If Hubbard wins there will be carnage.
- Joined
- 17 May 2012
- Messages
- 10,789
- Reaction score
- 852
- Country
Correct. But that does not make it right or fair. It is not sporting for a man to train as a professional weightlifter for his adult life, from puberty through and past his lifting peak, to then change gender and compete as a woman.
- Joined
- 9 May 2020
- Messages
- 7,395
- Reaction score
- 136
- Country
Is it likely to happen? Let's not jump to absurd assumptions to support an argument.
If one transitions to female in order to compete, and is successful in passing the medical tests, there's no going back. That's one heck of a leap. And there's no guarantee of success, either in being accepted, nor of winning any medal or title.
Let's also remember that sex is not binary. There may well have been female athletes that would not have passed the medical tests in the past.
Sport can never be equal. All that the relevant committees can do is to work towards making it as equal as possible.
Perhaps a better approach would be to investigate the medical (and any other) tests to see if they're appropriate, rather than vilifying an athlete.
As just said, we don't have all the relevant information and evidence on which to base a reliable decision. As far as I can see, the arguments against her competing have been based on suspicion and bias, incorrect and extrapolated claims and assumptions, rather than on scientific evidence.
Sponsored Links
