No earth for new light fitting

[cwvxr]

Hi,
My father-in-law is fitting some new lights in his kitchen (metal) and tells me there is no earth supplied for one of them, he wants to carry on and fit it without using an earth !, please can you supply reasons why this is BAD! as he will not take my word for it, aside from me saying you may die ! I dont know what elae to say? Maybe if he see's some responses from some qualfied sparks he will think again. Ive told him that the earth maybe cut back to the rose and maybe just a case of going back to find it but he just wants to fit the light.

 

[davelx]

It's a matter of minimising the risk of electrocution.

If a fault was to develop in the light fitting so that the live counductor touches the metallic fitting, then without an earth connection, the fuse/trip will not operate and the fitting will sit there at 240V until your FIL or one of the family touches it.

At that point (assuming circuit is not RCD protected), one of several things may happen

1) they may not create a path to earth through their body (maybe they are wearing rubber soled shoes and happen not to touch anthing else at the same time) so they may notice nothing

2) they may create a high resistance path to earth and feel a slight tingle

3) they may create a not quite so high a resistance path to earth and get a shock, of some degree of severity

etc etc until at some point:

4) The path to earth is of such a resistance, and the path the current takes through their body is such that they die.

Now, the person who touches this fitting might be your FIL - but it might be his grandchild - your child - who dies. Does he want that? Are you prepared to tell him that you will not allow your children (current and/or future) to visit whilst his house is electrically unsafe? Perhaps you should,

 

[cwvxr]

Thanks for your reply.

Im am also trying to explain that the fitting may get hot and melt or set fire to local structure. Would this be a valid point ?.

 

[davelx]

Thanks for your reply.

Im am also trying to explain that the fitting may get hot and melt or set fire to local structure. Would this be a valid point ?.

Possible but not likely - there would need to be a medium resistance path to earth so that signifcant current could flow but not trip the MCB - then that resitance would act like a heating element which could result in a fire somewhere (probably not in the fitting itself).

Let's do a risk assement here:

Risk: Electrocution
Probablity of Occurence: Low
Number of people axposed: anyone entering the kitchen - entire family and extended family and any guests.
Consequence of occurence: Death for 1 or more, several lives probably destroyed as a result.

your FIL isn't a fool, is he?

 

[cwvxr]

Thanks for your reply.

Im am also trying to explain that the fitting may get hot and melt or set fire to local structure. Would this be a valid point ?.

Possible but not likely - there would need to be a medium resistance path to earth so that signifcant current could flow but not trip the MCB - then that resitance would act like a heating element which could result in a fire somewhere (probably not in the fitting itself).

Let's do a risk assement here:

Risk: Electrocution
Probablity of Occurence: Low
Number of people axposed: anyone entering the kitchen - entire family and extended family and any guests.
Consequence of occurence: Death for 1 or more, several lives probably destroyed as a result.

your FIL isn't a fool, is he?

No not a fool, I think he wants to just leave this one without an earth. Ive told him to wait and I will go around to see if we can pull the earth down from the loop/rose. He is basically trying to avoid having to make a small job into a larger one .

 

[davelx]

No not a fool, I think he wants to just leave this one without an earth. Ive told him to wait and I will go around to see if we can pull the earth down from the loop/rose. He is basically trying to avoid having to make a small job into a larger one .

Then I'm sure he will see the sense in doing this correctly - or finding a class II fitting that does not need an earth,

http://www.double-insulated-lighting.co.uk/?gclid=CNjomJre6ZMCFQuH1QodJ0QrWw