Not Internet Enabled Boiler Controller

[DP]

would you not just get the same saving running round the house twice a day manually changing the setting on your existing TRV's but saving £400 initial cost and ongoing battery cost? the running around would also warm you up so win win.

You would need to get out of a warm bed to turn up the TRV to heat the room
Battery cost? Penny wise pound foolish comes to mind- not saying you are foolish or what ever. Just saying battery cost is minimal

Everyone has their own idea on how a system should be run. As a heating engineer have customer who turn the boiler on manually and same to put it off. Yet there are others who set the system to maintain desired temperature that would be just right and no more no less and controls are left on throughout the year with controls only firing the boiler if temperature drops below the set point

Taking this debate further, chap who has TR6 above, does not say what boiler he has. That thermostat has facilities that would enhance the fuel saved

 

[Northman]

Its an Ideal VogueMax System 32. The house is large but well insulated, and doesn't lose heat very quickly, so the diurnal temperature variation during even a winter day is small. Each room has its own (manual TRV) which is set to suit that particular room. Only one room is unoccupied, and that TRV is set relatively low. The other rooms are used regularly during the day, again with the TRV's adjusted to their particular requirement. We have a good solar gain much of the year, which is very effective in spring and summer. I suspect any saving from a 'smart' TRV would be trivial in our particular circumstances, though I can appreciate that some in different situations might benefit.

More to the point of the OP's query, a smart TRV appears to need an external internet connection and would (I assume?) need a programme on a mobile phone. The TR6 has more than sufficient programming capability with just its direct link internally.

 

[DP]

Its an Ideal VogueMax System 32. The house is large but well insulated, and doesn't lose heat very quickly, so the diurnal temperature variation during even a winter day is small. Each room has its own (manual TRV) which is set to suit that particular room. Only one room is unoccupied, and that TRV is set relatively low. The other rooms are used regularly during the day, again with the TRV's adjusted to their particular requirement. We have a good solar gain much of the year, which is very effective in spring and summer. I suspect any saving from a 'smart' TRV would be trivial in our particular circumstances, though I can appreciate that some in different situations might benefit.

More to the point of the OP's query, a smart TRV appears to need an external internet connection and would (I assume?) need a programme on a mobile phone. The TR6 has more than sufficient programming capability with just its direct link internally.

OT and geofencing options on TR6 would further help fuel economy. Fail to see the reasoning for not connecting the TR6 to internet

 

[ericmark]

I have two makes of electronic TRV heads, eQ-3 bluetooth cost me £15 each, and Energenie Mihome wifi connected at around £38 each, neither link to the main thermostat, which is Nest Gen 3, the cheaper one if anything is the better of the two, there is also the Terrier i30 which is programmable but does not interconnect. The eQ-3 bluetooth can be paired when there are two radiators in the same room.

I had them first in mother house, and with the modulating boiler and they worked well, this house with an oil on/off boiler not so good, but it took some setting up the lock shield valve, it means the room is only heated when required, but is not weather compensated.

Nest Gen 3 can be weather compensated using the internet, however I had to turn off most of the functions, as they simply did not work where the wall thermostat is mounted is rather important, and in my house there is no one place which will work A1.

The basic idea is to put the wall thermostat in a area kept cool, with no alternative heating which includes sun through windows, and no outside doors, on the ground floor, I have no such room, living room, dinning room, kitchen, and hall all have outside doors, but main problem is hall cools slower than any other room, you can adjust heating time with the lock shield valve, not much you can do about cooling time.

With a modulating boiler it can stay on 80% of the time, but with a non modulating likely only 30% so the heating with a modulating boiler is less susceptible to hysteresis.

 

[Nintendofan]

You would need to get out of a warm bed to turn up the TRV to heat the room

no you wouldn't, I could adjust the bedrooms as I went to bed so when the CH timer switched on in the mornings the TRV would be at the correct position, then wake up in the morning and adjust them back down again ready for the day. Rinse and repeat and saved myself £400.

 

[DP]

no you wouldn't, I could adjust the bedrooms as I went to bed so when the CH timer switched on in the mornings the TRV would be at the correct position, then wake up in the morning and adjust them back down again ready for the day. Rinse and repeat and saved myself £400.

I bow to your infinite wisdom sir

 

[Northman]

OT and geofencing options on TR6 would further help fuel economy. Fail to see the reasoning for not connecting the TR6 to internet

I'm currently considering whether OpenTherm would add any benefit over the boilers own self modulation, would appreciate your comments on that. Geofencing is irrelevant in our circumstances, there's practically always someone at home. I've yet to come across other facilities provided by an internet connection that would be of interest.

 

[DP]

A demand on the boiler results in hysterises ( spelling most likely incorrect) on the temperature selected ( like a wave form).

When a demand is made for the boiler to run, at that particular moment ( boiler dependent) boiler will go pedal* to metal and then other settings come into play to maintain steady temperature rise. As the boiler set temperature is reached, the Burner will be at minimum flame that may well overshoot the temperature resulting in burner shutting down and pump circulating the residual heat.
Burner will be in sleep mode by which time the temperature set point may well be calling for heat.

A thermostat just tells the boiler there is a demand. It plays no part in boiler operation other than when ambient temperature has been reached.

OT controls talk to boiler electronics instead of on/ off operation that standard thermostat apply to the boiler.

*Modern condensing boilers have sensors on the flow and return pipe, pump that can be adjusted for speed etc to try and keep the boiler in condensing mode. Some boilers will ( in heating mode) will fire at 75% power for a set period to minimise overshoot, others use other tricks

Above is a broad brush reply

 

[Mister Banks]

I'm currently considering whether OpenTherm would add any benefit over the boilers own self modulation, would appreciate your comments on that. Geofencing is irrelevant in our circumstances, there's practically always someone at home. I've yet to come across other facilities provided by an internet connection that would be of interest.

Does your boiler support Opentherm? No all do.

 

[DIYWell]

It's much easier to achieve this with Internet connectivity than without. Google Nest will take weather forecasts from the Net and turn on your heat at a suitably early time to achieve the desired temperature based on learned heating rates of your home and the forecast temperature at the time.

Sounds like a gimmick to me. Sure a device can pick up a forecast from the net, and that forecast is probably accurate for where the weather station is. My nearest weather recording site is 10 miles away and if the wind comes from the north, we take nearly the full brunt of it as it comes across open countryside.

 

[DIYWell]

A thermostat just tells the boiler there is a demand. It plays no part in boiler operation other than when ambient temperature has been reached.

And my heating system doesn't have a thermostat. All rads have TRVs except for the bathroom since there's no ABV in the system. Rooms seem to come up to temperature, TRVs throttle back, boiler goes off for a bit. At some point the boiler pixie decides something is cool enough, and the heating kicks back in for a bit.

Would adding a thermostat in a room make the system more efficient? I honestly have my doubts for a 20 year old boiler. Wouldn't adding one just mean that the comfort of one room overrides the heating in all of the others?

 

[DP]

And my heating system doesn't have a thermostat. All rads have TRVs except for the bathroom since there's no ABV in the system. Rooms seem to come up to temperature, TRVs throttle back, boiler goes off for a bit. At some point the boiler pixie decides something is cool enough, and the heating kicks back in for a bit.

Would adding a thermostat in a room make the system more efficient? I honestly have my doubts for a 20 year old boiler. Wouldn't adding one just mean that the comfort of one room overrides the heating in all of the others?

Boiler would not be cycling needlessly
Bet you if you put the heating on when sun is beating down and living room mis at 30 degree C, boiler would still kick in to heat the radiators that will accept the flow, then switch off, back on line, switch off etc till clock goes off. Utterly wasteful as boiler is running as there is no thermostat to tell the boiler room is at temperature.

Boiler may be 101 year old, a thermostat stops the boiler from needless cycling (you are relying on boiler thermostat temperature control* to run the heating system instead of external preferred option) when room thermostat says room at temperature.

*Internal temperature controls care not what temperature your rooms are. When boiler cools down sufficiently, burner comes back on, flow then goes beyond boiler control set point and burner goes out again thus goes the cycle.

 

[DIYWell]

But if the room was at 30C, why would I put the heating on? Ok, I sort of get your point; the TRVs are water temperature dependant, not room temperature, so the rads will put out heat for a bit even if the room is up to temperature.

Any suggestions where to put a thermostat? Main lounge, log burner, so room could be toastie, thermostat off, rest of the house chilly. Or I put it in the hallway like they did in the old days. Hallway is always cool, so set it to 16C and hope the TRVs have done their job quickly enough?

 

[DP]

Rooms have design temperature. Hall would be 18, bedrooms 16 and living room 20 degree C
Obviously you would not put a thermostat where the rooms are naturally warm or heated by other sources, a good option would be the thermostat relocated in a room that is colder ( northernly orientation). TRVed rads in warmer rooms will have shut down by the time the designated room reaches thermostat set point

All this is theory, practice is different- SWMBO comes along and wacks the thermostat to 30 degrees, theory out of the window then

 

[Ltnman]

The Hive can be used without internet connectivity.

l believe while the Hive might be smart but it doesn’t allow for load compensation.