Oh Dear

[Murdochcat]

I'm very reluctant to get one because it will add nothing to my existing set up.

What really concerns me is how long will it be before an IT "glitch" turns off multiple SM's, or changes the rates you pay or worse the system gets hacked.............

Variable pricing is why successive Governments want SM's

 

[JohnW2]

Variable pricing is why successive Governments want SM's

At least partially, I'm sure - but I imagine primarily in the hope that it will persuade at least some consumers to change their usage patterns, so as to even-out circadian variation, thereby reducing the risk of demand coming to exceed supply at what are currently 'peak demand' times of day.

 

[Jon c]

One of the well known energy companies recently called my dad about fitting a smart meter and in the discussion the company told him they couldn't remotely disconnect the supply! As far as I am aware, they CAN, so is that a blatant lie? Either way he turned it down, he is of the opinion (as am I) that smart meters are no use unless you've got solar panels or similar, you either need something on or you don't, a smart meter won't make that decision for you!

 

[EFLImpudence]

One of the well known energy companies recently called my dad about fitting a smart meter and in the discussion the company told him they couldn't remotely disconnect the supply! As far as I am aware, they CAN, so is that a blatant lie?

As far as I know it is possible but at the moment they are not allowed to.

 

[ericmark]

One of the well known energy companies recently called my dad about fitting a smart meter and in the discussion the company told him they couldn't remotely disconnect the supply! As far as I am aware, they CAN, so is that a blatant lie? Either way he turned it down, he is of the opinion (as am I) that smart meters are no use unless you've got solar panels or similar, you either need something on or you don't, a smart meter won't make that decision for you!

As far as I know it is possible but at the moment they are not allowed to.

As far as I am aware the same meter is used for pre-pay and non pre-pay accounts, to use the meter with pre-paid accounts they must be able to switch it off.

Smart meters are also used in other countries, and some of the scare stories may be non UK, I think in France you pay a different rate depending on size of supply, and they go far lower than the 60 amp used in UK, pre-smart they had a fuse, and a 16 amp fuse will allow over 16 amp as long as the average is under 16 amp. Same applies with a MCB, but the smart meters were turning off as soon as the agreed current rating was exceeded, so they were turning off the supply where the fuse had worked without a problem. But as far as I am aware that system has not been implemented in the UK.

I did live through the Winter of discontent, and yes the government did turn off our supplies of electric, it did result in problems for people who relied on electric for heating, although our heating was gas hot air, when the power went off so did our heating, one reason I don't want a heat pump, and I was persuaded to have solar panels and a battery, I could burn wood, but the dust it makes, prefer not to. And it was after the winter of discontent I said never again would I live in a house where no electric means no heat. I can use candles etc for light, but heat is some thing else.

 

[JohnW2]

As far as I am aware the same meter is used for pre-pay and non pre-pay accounts, to use the meter with pre-paid accounts they must be able to switch it off.

True - but the same is true of a 'dumb' pre-pay meter, and can (as it has to be with the 'dumb' ones) be achieved 'internally', without any need for communication and 'remote disconnection'..

I don't know what is 'allowed'(per EFLI's comment) but a long time ago the suppliers, as a whole, appeared to 'promise' not to use the remote disconnection facility of 'smart' meters. That may have been partially in the interests of 'PR', but also may have been to avoid the risk to them (legally/financially) of responsibility/liability for any harm that came to anyone/anything as a consequence of their using remote disconnection (or remote re-connection) 'deliberately' for commercial reasons.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ebee]

I am aware of one person who was told they "must" have a smart meter because the property owner wants it.
That person was the tennant who did not particularly want it but the meter fitters were insisting that it must be fitted and the tennant had no choice.
My thought is, because it made the tennant more aware of ongoing use and easier to top up the prepayment feature, it was in this particular case probably more of a good outcome than a bad one in practical reality.

 

[JohnW2]

I am aware of one person who was told they "must" have a smart meter because the property owner wants it.
That person was the tennant who did not particularly want it but the meter fitters were insisting that it must be fitted and the tennant had no choice.
My thought is, because it made the tennant more aware of ongoing use and easier to top up the prepayment feature, it was in this particular case probably more of a good outcome than a bad one in practical reality.

That's a bit confusing.

In whose name was the account? If the owner/landlord, then i suppose what you describe would be fair enough. However, if it were the tenant's account, it wouldn't really make much sense - since the owner/landlord would not then be part of the equation and, indeed, the supplier might not even be aware of their identity.

Am I missing something?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ebee]

No . It was the tennant who was signed up to pay the bills and was notified of an appointment on such and such a day and the meter fitters turned up the tennant asked why they were being put on a smart meter where told that it was the landlord who decided it. so let them do it.

I was told of it, by the tennant, a while after the deed was done.

I know a few folk who have assumed, by the way they have been informed, that they must have it done.

In much they same way, when stopped, many years ago, by the police ref my tyre tread I was asked my occupation, I assumed I had to answer it because a policeman had asked me in the course of filling the form in. A few days later, on surrendering my licence at the police station I asked the desk sargeant why the question he said I didn`t need to actually answer that question but most folk assume they are obliged to because of the tone and circumstances in which they are asked. I retorted "Oh, next time I will just tell them I am a Zepplin Builder then!" He saw the funny side of it but said not to lie but I could refuse to give the info.

Just like with HMRC, every year I got a return to fill in and I took the inference that I must fill it in. So I checked up, no I didn`t need to but then they would assess me on such a stupid figure I never would have earned. I dumped my accountant and let them assess me, then appealed, then took my paperwork into HMRC and they did all the workin out and agreed a figure with me. The time I took with the appeal and subsequent office meeting to let them work out and agree figures was a lot less than paying an accountant to do it for me.

One of the inspectors one time admitted to me that if anyone actually paid up the assessed figure without a fight they had an investigation because they must have put in a figure of less amount than the tax that should rightly be paid.
All that changed when self-assessment came in and a sole trader was then actually obliged to fill in a return.

On one of my visits, I turned up in mucky workgear, the tax lady took my jacket off and carefully hung it up for me, really respectfull. She was looking at my paperwork and noticed me looking here and there around the office from my chair and eventually asked what I was looking for.
I answered "I am looking for a stone that you have squeezed some blood out of!"
She chuckled and replied "We are not that bad" then chuckled again.

 

[JohnW2]

No . It was the tennant who was signed up to pay the bills and was notified of an appointment on such and such a day and the meter fitters turned up the tennant asked why they were being put on a smart meter where told that it was the landlord who decided it. so let them do it.

In that case, as I said, I don't think the landlord is in a position to do/say anything about the electrical installation. Indeed, as I said, in most such situation they very probably wouldn't even know who the landlord was.

I would therefore have thought that it would be entirely down to the 'bill payer' (i.e. the tenant) to decide whether or not he wanted the 'smart' meter (so long as anyone has a 'choice'!).

I know a few folk who have assumed, by the way they have been informed, that they must have it done.

Indeed. As you go on to say, people (at least, Brits!) have tendency to believe anything said to them by anyone seemingly 'in some position of authority'!

..... A few days later, on surrendering my licence at the police station I asked the desk sargeant why the question he said I didn`t need to actually answer that question but most folk assume they are obliged to because of the tone and circumstances in which they are asked. I retorted "Oh, next time I will just tell them I am a Zepplin Builder then!" He saw the funny side of it but said not to lie but I could refuse to give the info.

Yes, it's particularly an issue when the person 'in some position of authority' is a member of the police force - and people are then inclined to assume that they are obliged to believe anything they are told, and answer any question asked.

As I understand it (from what I've been told here), there are very few questions from a police officer that one is 'obliged' to answer - essentially those needed to establish one's identity - although one may be at risk of being arrested if one refuses to answer certain questions.

However, if one is arrested then one is 'cautioned' - and a while ago we discussed here the wording of the standard 'police caution' and the order in which things are done ... I observed that on TV I had seen someone cautioned that he was "not obliged to say or do anything, but ....", immediately after which the police officer started getting 'heavy' because the person then refused to answer the question about his name! However, I was told by someone here (who appeared to know what he was talking about) that responding to a request to identify oneself was 'one of the exceptions' to what the caution actually said! In response, I suggested that the caution probably needed to be re-worded to something like ...

"You are not obliged to say or do anything, other than the things that you are obliged to say or do ...."

Kind Regards, John

 

[morqthana]

If you think about it, getting a smart meter installed can be better.

Better for whom?

 

[morqthana]

Afaict from the industries point of view smart meters have several advantages over traditional meters.

1. They save on employing meter readers.

So does having customers do most of the readings.

2. The allow a customer to be switched from postpay to prepay or vice-versa without an engineer visit.

As you say, not a benefit from the customer's POV.

 

[morqthana]

I would love a working smart meter, it would mean I do not have to clear all the crap from my cellar steps, climb over what's left to get to the stone stairs going down and risk an accident by climbing through all the other crap to get to my my electricity meter so I can take a reading (I take a photo the come back up). It would also mean I do not have to empty all the crap out of the corner cupboard in the kitchen and take a photo of the gas meter.
Not a task I relish doing so I try to forget to do it for a few months, the gas I'm OK with but the leccy - I'd rather not.

The alternative to that isn't only a smart meter - there's also the option of a meter in a more sensible place.

 

[morqthana]

I have a washer/drier and a washing machine and heat pump drier, so I could change which system I use, but each time each machine is used the results a different, drying sensors, clothes weighting, and other built in energy saving means the results are useless in deciding which to use.

I can suggest an experiment, which unfortunately would take 3 years to carry out.

For a whole year use only one system, and record consumption on a monthly basis. At the end of the time you'll be able to see which is most cost effective at what time of year, given your typical drying loads, which I guess would "average out" over long periods.

But no policy of targeting energy use will be practical if you need sometimes to decide against washer/drier drying because you need to dry one load at the same time as washing the next, or because you need to wash more in one load than can be dried in one load.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The alternative to that isn't only a smart meter - there's also the option of a meter in a more sensible place.

The moving of which, might cost thousands.