Oil Boiler lockout problem revisited.

[midas]

Hi

I've posted before about my Camray Quartet oil boiler that suffers from intermittent lockout problems.

It was problematic early this year ran fine for the spring and summer and has just start playing up again.

So far it's always been cured with a simple press of the reset button except for today.

I did purchase a new capacitor as I had a similar problem about 3 years ago and fitting the capacitor cured it although that hasn't been replaced yet.

A few weeks back I started to notice a noise when the boiler first fires up in the morning. Thinking about it, it sounds like a noisy fan kind of noise which gradually wears off after a while so I'm wondering whether this may be my problem?

Today when I went to reset the boiler it took about 4 presses before the fan kicked in all I got was a humming noise so I'm fearing a breakdown is
imminent.

From advise here, lockouts can be caused by many problems so what's the best diagnostic sequence for getting to the root of the problem?

Change capacitor first and then move or or what?

P.S my boiler is serviced regularly and was last done 3 weeks ago.

Thanks for any help

Midas

 

[oilhead]

The noise will be either a failing oil pump or burner motor, or possibly both.
To check, remove the oil pump from the end of the motor and turn it manually. A visual inspection will probably show evidence of fuel leakage from the centre shaft seal which will have been going into the rear bearing of the motor. If this has been happening long enough, you will need to replace the bearing at least.

 

[Danoil]

I would also question if this should have been picked up on when your oil engineer serviced this, as the fault at first glance would appear to be a failing fuel pump or worn bearings in the motor (hence the noise when it first fires). Any person 'servicing' your boiler should be stripping and checking the burner components and would have checked these as a matter of course.

Aslo I have had these a number of times where the fuel pump only goes tight when it has been running a while and gets heat into it so this MAY be a reason why it hasn't been picked up before if this is the fault.

Either way I would suggest getting your oil engineer back to check it over

 

[oilhead]

Danoil is right. This should have been picked up if a service was only three weeks ago.

 

[midas]

Thank you Danoil and oilhead for your prompt replies.

The engineer is coming back and did suggest over the phone that was either the pump or motor (without me prompting).

I feel maybe I should question whether that should have been picked up on the service but that runs the risk of accusing him of not doing his job properly etc.

Oh well.

 

[Danoil]

Dont be afraid to ask them!! Your the one who has paid good money to have a job done and on the face of it at least it would seem he hasn't.

A simple "should that have been picked up on in the service" would do. If he says no and the pump is faulty i would get someone else in future.

It sounds like this has been an ongoing problem for you for a while, makes one wonder how many services this has been overlooked for.

Just out of curiosity, how long did they spend servicing your boiler and did you see what they did?

 

[Agile]

Boilers should be serviced during the summer months when engineers are not so busy with repairs!

I would agree that if the symptoms were present when serviced he should have noticed. But we dont know if they were noticeable then so I would not be in a hurry to condem him.

If he had noticed anything wrong then he would have advised you. Thats whats a service is for.

Tony

 

[Danoil]

agile you are right, my post was worded a little biased and i am sure we have all had call backs to jobs where things wernt apparent at first. Point taken!

 

[Agile]

I was not really seriously disagreeing with you.

Just pointing out that as it had been running fine for spring and summer it may not have been very obvious during the service.

As the OP said, its noisy first thing in the morning, but quiet after.

Boiler engineers are not always at fault!

Tony

 

[midas]

Also I have had these a number of times where the fuel pump only goes tight when it has been running a while and gets heat into it so this MAY be a reason why it hasn't been picked up before if this is the fault.

Can that be repaired or will it have to be replaced?

Also how can you tell if the motor and or oil pump are faulty rather than just the capacitor?

Thanks

 

[Burnerman]

The capacitor tells the motor which way to start spinning.....best to put the motor on the bench and connect 240v to it - the motor should start to spin every time. At the same time, I have had motors that spin with very little torque - so little in fact that you can stop the rotation with your fingers!
The pump should turn with slight resistance, and shouldn't feel notchy at all. Notice the pump is often held in place by two grub screws......don't feel obliged to tighten these fully as they can interfere with the pump alignment.
Motor bearings do tend to howl when they are worn, but this is inconvenient rather than causing start failure......popular ones are 6202Z.
John

 

[midas]

Re the other posters' questions.
The guy was here for nearly two hours and no I didn't watch him.
The problem started early this year but was very intermittent. maybe only 3 or 4 times then ran fine all summer / autumn but started again in October.

I did mention it at the time of the service but I'm guessing nothing was apparent as he didn't report any potential problems re the lockout.

Regarding the noise first thing. This only happened a couple of times and doesn't appear to be there any more. Maybe I was imagining it in my dozy early morning state.

He's coming back today so I'll report back.

 

[midas]

A simple "should that have been picked up on in the service" would do. If he says no and the pump is faulty i would get someone else in future.

I don't seem to have much luck with heating engineers

I've been on oil for 10 years and had 4 different engineers in that time.

The first guy came recommended and did appear (obviously I'm not a qualified heating engineer) to do a very thorough job (I used to watch him out of curiosity).

Sadly he retired.

The next guy was only ever here for about 30 minutes and I just didn't believe you could do a proper service in that timescale.

The third guy was obviously a crook. (Long story)

Now on my fourth....

 

[Burnerman]

For what they cost, fitting a new capacitor is always a good move as there's no physical evidence when they are breaking down - although sometimes slight swelling is visible.
Depending on the motor, some caps are completely external, but some are integral with the motor end casting. Either way, a replacement can be fitted without too much trouble.
John

 

[midas]

For what they cost, fitting a new capacitor is always a good move as there's no physical evidence when they are breaking down - although sometimes slight swelling is visible.
Depending on the motor, some caps are completely external, but some are integral with the motor end casting. Either way, a replacement can be fitted without too much trouble.
John

I have a spare capacitor. How long do they normally last as I only had one replaced about 3 or 4 years ago?