Oil boiler, time between on/off/on and use of multi thermostats etc.

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OK, the system works, and is reasonably cheap to run. But the hysteresis is rather high. 1768777989087.png1768778288983.png1768778350088.pngIt took some time to work out what the graphs are but 1768779625402.png found it in the end, the green bit (last graph) is outside temperature, green line actually temperature, and black line the set temperature. The first graph is from the Kasa TRV head, and does show the hysteresis, which looks massive, 18.2°C to 25°C, but this is under the window, where we sit it not as much variation.

But the question is with an on/off gas boiler what should be expected.
 
I too have a oil fired boiler, a 21 year old, 20kW, non condensing Firebird, 10 rads, 8 with TRVs ("mechanical") and one roomstat that controls the temperature in a combined dining/living room, the TRVd (set to 18C) rads are in rooms that we rarely "live" in except for the bedroom which is set to 17/18C, seems to control reasonably well even though it (they) takes what it can get as the roomstat controls the boiler firing.
The electronic roomstat is a FantiniCosmi with a differential setting range of 0.3C to 2.0C, no TPI, set to its lowest setting of 0.3C, roomtemp is set to 19.5C during the day and increased to 21C from ~ 1800 to 0100, it gives excellent control with a 0.1/0.2C overshoot, 0.2C being more of the norm, once up to temperature. After a cold start in the morning with the roomtemp at ~ 16.5/18C, it will overshoot by a max of 0.4C but this then reduces to the above after a few cycles. The boilerstat is set to 65C, so refires at ~ 57C, but because I've no pump overrun, the boier temp will rise to ~ 90C after boiler cut out, on rommstat (re) call, the burner will not refire for up to 10 minutes or longer (depending on heat demand) until the boiler temp falls to that ~ 57C.
The only sort of strange thing I've noticed is that even though the roostat switches off the boiler at its SP which is as expected, it refires the boiler well before SP-0.3C, it doesn't call at SP-0.1C but does call before SP-0.2C, so ~ SP-1.5C, it certainly never waits until SP-0.3C, maybe this is whay I get such apparent tight control of the roomtemp?.
 
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Nothing to do and all day to do it is what I see.
All this minute monitoring of temperature hysteris with parameters in the 0.1C is irrelevant in the scheme of things. One needs to look only at the general picture of comfort which takes in more factors, some indefinable.
 
But the question is with an on/off gas boiler what should be expected.

1768825869740.png


The green line, suggests the heating came on, before the black line suggests it should have done. That it over-shot the 21C setting a little, but there was less over-shoot when the target was increased to 22C.

I doubt there would be much difference from an old on/off gas boiler, or even a modern modulating one, but a more modern modulating boiler, which included some clever controls, would be able to avoid the over-shoot, and under-shoot.

Here is mine, which includes the 'clever controls', note there are no wild oscillations in temperatures... The yellow line, from 10am, when the set temperature was changed from the night 14C, to 18C, in the coldest area of the home.

1768826738831.png
 
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Thank you, @Johntheo5 that's what I wanted, basically to know what was normal. In my mother's old house with a modulating boiler, set the TRV to 20°C and the room was (reported at the TRV head) 20°C +/- 0.5°C and once room was at temperature the radiator just stayed warm, there was to all practical purposes no hysteresis.

I note your
but because I've no pump overrun, the boier temp will rise to ~ 90C after boiler cut out
and was told by the heating engineer who helped getting the system running, that this was the advantage of the C Plan in that on switch off heat went into the DHW.
One needs to look only at the general picture of comfort which takes in more factors, some indefinable.
Yes, I see what you mean, had on moving in the central heating worked reasonably then it would have never been touched, I would have just accepted my lot so to speak. I was water flowing in reverse, needing to go outside to turn it on/off, and no auto method to turn it on/off, which resulted in the adding of motorised valves (to stop reverse flow and heating pipework of sections of house not in use, i.e. main house and flat) that I added a thermostat, think there should have been one, found the receiver, but that it seems was not wired up, one had to plug in and unplug pumps to direct the heat to part of house where wanted.

I found wiring and a programmer, 1768826345416.png but found the triple and earth changed colours end to end from red, yellow, blue to brown, black, grey and one core open circuit, not a clue where joined, so it was how does one control heating and DHW with two wires, and power the boiler, my answer was to use a local supply to boiler, and used Nest Gen 3 (happier with only 12 volts on those wires) so the main house hard wired and controlled from the thermostat in the hall, this did not work very well, hall cooled too slowly. So heating worked now, but needed improvement.

I tried the balancing, fitting electronic heads, but it was not until a second hub was fitted, this time Drayton Wiser, in parallel with original, that I started to get reasonable heating. But still nothing like the gas fired heating in my late mothers house, but the question is, how good can a boiler that turns off/on get? Mothers had a modulating boiler, this house simple on/off.

I have realised there is a problem with radiators under the window, as the TRV is on the radiator, so is being cooled by a cold outside wall, the Kasa and Wiser TRV heads can be linked to remote wall thermostat on the inner wall of the room, but not the eQ-3 and Energenie, the flat still has mechanical TRV's so could replace some in main house and reuse them down steps in the flat. And/or fit remote sensors to the two existing TRV's which will work with them. But as @oilhead points out, never be perfect, and at some point need to say that's near enough.

@Harry Bloomfield has pointed out, the Wiser is working out when heating is wanted and how long it takes the room to warm up, and switching the boiler on a bit early to allow for warm up time, the Nest Gen 3 thermostat rarely gets cold enough to turn on heating, but left in case I want DHW from the oil, and as a back-up should the Wiser thermostat battery become discharged.

I note I had to set the controls to oil or gas, and would assume a longer mark/space for oil compared with gas, so is this as good as it gets, or is there still room for reasonable improvement?
 
A couple of observations for @ericmark …..

The Wiser system needs comfort mode turned on in order to work out when to turn heating on before the temperature setpoint change. This mode is off by default.

The wiser graph is inaccurately plotting when the temperature rises, mine does the same. It has been reported to wiser but there is no fix available.
 

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