Opinions? UK Wiring standards.

[Shengis]

Having read through a lot of the posts on here i've come to the conclusion that building regs etc are a total waste of time. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an attacking post or anything, but it just seems that a LOT of the questions asked on here relate to jobs that were totally bodged in the first place, not even up to standard on the original regs. I'm NOT an electrician but looking at some of the posts (crosswired sockets, mega spaghetti lighting circuits with odd numbers of wires etc) I wonder how the hell they're not picked up on at some stage?

Just wonder what any pros on here think?

By the way, as an example, had a bulb blow in my bathroom the other night, couldnt get the casing on the fitting apart and ended up with it hanging by the wires. What I found was...

2 red twisted and taped together.
2 bare as above
and 2 black feed wires on the fitting.

Ok, not 'too' bad in itself, but did I find any red tape on either of the black wires?? Maybe thats NOT part of regs (thought it always was?) to label live feeds but its helpfull

 

[plugwash]

Having read through a lot of the posts on here i've come to the conclusion that building regs etc are a total waste of time. Don't get me wrong, this isn't an attacking post or anything, but it just seems that a LOT of the questions asked on here relate to jobs that were totally bodged in the first place, not even up to standard on the original regs. I'm NOT an electrician but looking at some of the posts (crosswired sockets, mega spaghetti lighting circuits with odd numbers of wires etc) I wonder how the hell they're not picked up on at some stage?

they'll get picked up if an electrician does a periodic inspection but in a domestic situation that generally only happens if someone noticed something dubious during a house sale (which is quite unlikely if all the dubious stuff is well hidden) or major electrical work is done.

they also as you have discovered reading through posts here tend to get noticed when someone other than the original bodger comes along to try and modify the bodged installation.

2 red twisted and taped together.
2 bare as above
and 2 black feed wires on the fitting.

the worst thing here is the joining of wires by twisting, its not considered a reliable or safe method by far!

the lack of identification of the switched live is technically against regs but extremely common and not a safety issue. Also with a traditional rose wired correctly you can identify the switched live by which color it joins to on the flex.

 

[Shengis]

Pretty much my own thoughts, if you can't see it you don't worry about it.... Till something bad happens It just makes me wonder how much unsafe bodged wiring there actually IS in the UK that nobody knows about, or even suspects exists. From a houseowners point of view that is.

As to my own lighting situation, I found the live feed quite by accident, had to go into the cellar for some screws, needed light down there obviously, flipped the mcb and forgot to switch it off again and got 'bitten' By the way, the twisted wires are now firmly screwed together with a pair of insulated connection blocks, as I wasn't particularly happy with it as it was.

 

[Job_n_knock]

Its a good question.
Over the years we see new editions of the regs and new interpretations of mainly Earthing until the harmonising came about. As a middle aged spark I have to say that I am totally opposed to the way the Europeans have forced us to adopt their way of thinking in many respects. In my view there was nothing wrong in the way we identified phase colours. RYB and Bl worked fine for me and all of the sparks here. If you're colour blind you shouldn't have got past the eye tests that we took when we began our apprenticeships. Still we have to abide by it and so we do. One thing it does though is it makes us all focus more on what we're doing and why we're doing it. Its a good way to positively identify new installations for example.
If there's one thing that gets my back up, its the 1 year courses that colleges are offering that are supposed to produce Electricians at the end. I did a 4 year apprenticeship with 1 out of 3 week block release at college. The first year is always based on house bashing so at the end the trainee can wire a house ? In my view and I may speak out of turn here but I think he or she is incompetent to let loose on someone's property. How long do these guys last on sites ?......not long, we've all seen them. Have you seen the mess they make of a length of tube? A few years ago I was at Barts hospital and a guy turned up from an agency, he was absolutely mustard at conduit, couldnt fault him at all. He was fast and he used a block as opposed to a bender...like the old boys do...but he had not a single clue how to wire it up. His apprenticeship was with a small firm that didnt send him to college and had him bending tubes all day. This is what we're faced with. The trade shortage that the industry suffers today is down to the cessation of apprenticeships that all large firms used to have. They used to get a government grant until Maggie stopped it, then they cancelled all such training and a downward spiral began.
By and large the best way to ensure you get someone decent to work on your property is to try to base selection on recommendations (not on price ) and always get the proper testing certification as you you have to now anyway if you want to sell your house. I know its tough on someone who has just come out of his time but hey...we've all been there. The prices today are a reflection of these changes. And heres the best reason for Part P....to stop non qualified people from carrying out sub standard work as described above. You might pay a bit more for certified work but in the long run you have peace of mind that you will hit no hiccups upon house sales and more importantly you can sleep at night knowing your wiring is safe.
Sorry about the long read

 

[Shengis]

I know this is going to make me sound like a right saddo but i'd just love to visit a busy high street, stop passersby and challenge them to wire a 13A plug. The number of people I know who COULDN'T do it thanks to everything coming with moulded plugs these days...... Then again, as we live in a throwaway society, don't suppose they would bother even if they could

 

[ebee]

It`s amazing how many can not wire a plug and never could (Properly)

 

[dingbat]

Three times now I've done a consumer unit change and had a call back within a few hours as, "All me electrics have gone off."

In each case it's been an item of Class II kit where the neutral has been connected to the plug's earth pin. Of course, it's always been my fault because, "It's worked okay for years before you came and changed the fuseboard!"

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have to say that I am totally opposed to the way the Europeans have forced us to adopt their way of thinking in many respects.

It wasn't like that - we are Europeans too, remember, and harmonisation affected other countries, not just ours.

And heres the best reason for Part P....to stop non qualified people from carrying out sub standard work as described above.

 

[Mallory]

I've been using this site since moving into an old house and "marvelling" at the "interesting" things that appear to have been done with the electrics. Now I'm DEFINITELY no expert, but I can wire up a plug and change a (plastic!) switch/socket and I can see if something looks wrong AND know when to call in the professionals.

Considering there has been dodgy DIY done in my house - would it be worth getting a domestic PIR done on the house - I take it this would identify anything dangerous (I have not had good experiences with general surveyors in the past - they always miss the important things - is it any different with those doing electric surveys)?

 

[dingbat]

Considering there has been dodgy DIY done in my house - would it be worth getting a domestic PIR done on the house - I take it this would identify anything dangerous (I have not had good experiences with general surveyors in the past - they always miss the important things - is it any different with those doing electric surveys)?

A surveyor has to be a jack of all trades to some extent. He has to express an opinion on a wide range of elements that affect the structure, integrity and value of your property. This is why surveyors always end up having to recommend 'specialist reports'.

A PIR is one such specialist report. The inspecting electrician is expected to test and inspect a representative sample of your installation, investigating further if problems are found. He is not, however, equipped with X-Ray specs. A PIR on a bog-standard 3-bed semi should take 3-6 hours to do properly, cost anywhere from £100-250 and result in a thorough schedule of test results, along with an itemised and prioritised list of departures from regulations. And possibly a quotation for remedial works.

But a good electrician will be able to tell you within minutes the approximate age of your installation along with its main deficiencies. If you know where the dodgy stuff is I'd say your best bet is to call a couple of local, registered sparks and ask their opinion - why pay for a PIR when you really need a free estimate for a rewire?

 

[RF Lighting]

A PIR is probably a good idea, but even this will not show up every problem. There may be things like cables joined in strip connectors hidden under floorboards, which no amount of testing will flag up, and a PIR does not go to the extent of lifting floors etc. It will show up anything dangerous such as missing earths, low insulation resistance etc.

A decent test and inspection bod should however be able to tell wether there is likely to be more untoward wiring lurking somewhere.

 

[Mallory]

Thanks for your reply!

I don't actually think it's as bad as a rewire - hopefully. As you say, I pretty much know where the potentially dodgy bits are and can point a local electrician in the direction of them, so that may be a better line to take.

Having said that, I guess it's only a matter of time before house selling requires a compulsory recent domestic PIR anyway.... and from the houses I've had the misfortune to have to sort out.... maybe not a bad idea...

 

[Shengis]

On the subject of testing, i've noticed on ebay (my home from home lol) these socket tester things that show crossed wires/broken earths etc. Any use at all? Think they have a series of led lamps that light in a certain sequence to show faults and you have to match that to a list. It's late, don't mind me

 

[JohnD]

They do no harm at all, and are worth using. But they don't tell you the quality of the connection; the condition of the wire, etc. But so quick and easy to use that you can run round your house checking them all in next to no time.

Unfortunately, although they indicate if something has one of those faults that make it unsafe; they can't be relied on to say that is IS safe.


p.s. when I was working at the then Eastern Electricity (not as an Electrician), we had a safety bulletin banning them as inspection tools, after an installation was signed off as good, when it had crossed live/neutral from the incoming overhead supply. IIRC, the fact that the error was upstream of the meter prevented it being spotted, and someone had put reliance on his socket tester.

 

[Job_n_knock]

Ban all sheds thats a lot of smileys....10/10 for effort.
Please explain them.

Some years ago I was a subby at Aldermaston on a major refurb. All of the accessories were being changed to the then "new" style MK accessories. 3 weeks into the project one of the specifiers was visiting the works and found that a cleaner was using a plug upside down in the socket. It transpired that the earth pin was missing from this plug (obviously old ) and had the effect of reversing the polarity on her Hoover. The same day we had to remove them and started fitting Tenby sockets. You'd think a firm like MK would have foreseen possible probems from moving from Earth pin gate activation to Live/neutral "twist" gates. Sometimes change isnt that good.