Our political system, what 'is' the answer?

Nonsense! The destruction of Britain hasn't occurred naturally; it is a result of deliberate actions by a succession of people, starting with Tony Blair. It can therefore be deliberately undone by other people.
It’s amusing that you think tough political leadership will solve our economic problems. Just look at Trumpf’s impact on the world economy.
 
It’s amusing that you think tough political leadership will solve our economic problems. Just look at Trumpf’s impact on the world economy.
So you think that we should keep the same system and caliber of politicians in power then?
 
So you think that we should keep the same system and caliber of politicians in power then?
Or vote some others in when the opportunity arises.
Trump should be a warning to all those that foolishly believe a full of shoite business type person is the answer to political leadership.
 
Nonsense! The destruction of Britain hasn't occurred naturally; it is a result of deliberate actions by a succession of people, starting with Tony Blair. It can therefore be deliberately undone by other people.

I honestly think that there is something much more massive going on. If you Google something along the lines of 'if all Muslims left the UK would we still have an existential vacuum' then you will get some idea of the arguments for and against the proposition. It is a fascinating but complex discussion. The USA is going through exactly the same thing and they have a much lower proportion of Muslims.
 
Nonsense! The destruction of Britain hasn't occurred naturally; it is a result of deliberate actions by a succession of people, starting with Tony Blair. It can therefore be deliberately undone by other people.
As long as they're one of your chosen few, eh?
 
The 'existential vacuum' together with the idea of 'Westlessness' is an extremely potent combination which goes a long way to explaining why much of the West is so unhappy.
 
I honestly think that there is something much more massive going on. If you Google something along the lines of 'if all Muslims left the UK would we still have an existential vacuum' then you will get some idea of the arguments for and against the proposition. It is a fascinating but complex discussion. The USA is going through exactly the same thing and they have a much lower proportion of Muslims.
You'll break it with questions like that.
 
The problem isn't really fixable.

The West is facing an existential vacuum.

This causes many to invent bogeymen, such as immigrants, to compensate.
This is the conclusion I've reached. Regardless of the political system used, the old human traits (in terms of those who seek to be leaders) of a hunger for power, greed and a dose of narcissism are never far away.
 
So you think that we should keep the same system and caliber of politicians in power then?
Being tough doesn’t fill potholes, money does. As for calibre, re form led Kent CC are claiming a £40 million saving from a unfunded line in a budget.


Where we need to be tough, on things like defence, the country is being undermined by the right wing taking Pootin’s laundered money, and lauding him as a strong leader. Strong leaders don’t bomb hospitals and residential areas.
 
Here is some information I got from Google. I am not saying any of this is correct. I am purely posting to encourage discussion. It is another way of looking at why the West is so unhappy, as a counter to the more usual narratives which may turn out to be simplistic:


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I can sum it up for CHATman in one word: TRUST.

A comment yesterday saying the Mandelson affair has eroded trust in politics made me lol - where the f. have they been for the past 20-30 years?
Have they forgotten de Piffle already? Have they heard Fartrage recently?

They said pop would eat itself...turns out to be politics chewing on its own tail.
 
Abolish the lords.

Give every MP say £200k per year that they can't have themselves but can donate to whatever party they belong to. Then ban all parties from receiving any funding from any other source - no business donations, billionaires or unions.

This would obviously cost the state a few million in now funding all the parties. But the amounts saved in corruption and wonky decisions to benefit their paymasters would be many, many times greater.

Startup parties would need to be allowed to fundraise however they could - otherwise they'd never get any money without any MPs. There would need to be a cut-off, say 10 MPs, where they're not allowed any more donations from elsewhere. Or they just need to make a choice between state or donation funded - all or nothing, you can't have both.

But whatever the answer, corrupt greedy politicians are never going to want to stop corrupt, greedy politicians from getting richer. The foxes are in charge of the henhouse so it will probably never change because they all know it's wrong but want it to stay that way.
 
Abolish the lords.

Give every MP say £200k per year that they can't have themselves but can donate to whatever party they belong to. Then ban all parties from receiving any funding from any other source - no business donations, billionaires or unions.

This would obviously cost the state a few million in now funding all the parties. But the amounts saved in corruption and wonky decisions to benefit their paymasters would be many, many times greater.

Startup parties would need to be allowed to fundraise however they could - otherwise they'd never get any money without any MPs. There would need to be a cut-off, say 10 MPs, where they're not allowed any more donations from elsewhere. Or they just need to make a choice between state or donation funded - all or nothing, you can't have both.

But whatever the answer, corrupt greedy politicians are never going to want to stop corrupt, greedy politicians from getting richer. The foxes are in charge of the henhouse so it will probably never change because they all know it's wrong but want it to stay that way.

I have been saying something similar about party funding for decades.

I am still in two minds on the HoL. It is a mad system. But it sort of works.
 
I am still in two minds on the HoL. It is a mad system. But it sort of works.
I agree. Totally undemocratic, but at the moment they're doing a very good job of keeping the current bunch of lunatics under some sort of control. But only because we currently have such an awful government.

Perhaps some sort of massive reform. Not sure how, but I'm sure it could be done.

I think there are countries with state-funded parties, and it works very well. I haven't done an academic study, but I'm absolutely sure it would save vastly more than it costs.

We'd also need MPs to be prepared to have their bank accounts independently audited, otherwise they'd just take money directly from donors quietly instead of declaring it. So they'd probably need a higher salary to put up with this. If so then fine, perhaps we'd then get a better breed rather than the slippery lizards that currently do the job.

But any change would require those currently benefitting from corruption to want to change it. So it won't ever happen. I'd hope that the bold and apparently principled Reform party could be our best hope of actual change. They'll probably get a chance, let's hope that they're not just like the rest.
 
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