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Outdoor power supply

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Jerome2020, 15 Aug 2020.

  1. Jerome2020

    Jerome2020

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    Hi

    Im new to this forum, hopefully im in the right area for this.

    Ok, so i need power outdoors to power some decking lights (16 x 0.6w) and a pond fountain, which i believe was around 400w- may be wrong there but its definitely a very small amount.

    So, i have no power in that area. Closest power point is in my outhouse. A single socket, which itself, spurs off a socket in the kitchen- which is on the ring main.

    So, the socket in the outhouse, between that and the area where I'd need the socket, is a wall, two slabs, then a large area of soil where the decking will be built.

    Ive had qoutes for installing a permanent outdoor double socket, via armoured cable and a 13a fused spur- im not sure if he would spur off the single outhouse socket or spur off the kitchen socket again. I read you cant spur off a socket twice - he said said it would be ok as its a fused spur.

    Anyways.

    1. Qoute one £180. Found him on a website which gives a list of local part p registered sparkys. He doesn't provide a cert, said he wouldn't for small jobs like this. I dont know if i need one? Ive asked him to do the job but he's slow in responding so i think he'll flake out.
    2. Quote two £190. He said he'll include a cert. Found him on the same website for part p guys. But then he got abit mardy when i asked if he'll price match so he no longer an option
    3. Quote three was like £255. And extra £50 for cert. Found him on Facebook.

    Last option is diy. Purchase a 2.5mmsq heavy duty outdoor double socket for about £70. Plug it into an rcd adapter (the CU has rcd anyway but this is extra precaution). Run the cable from outhouse via a pvc conduit then, through the wall, down to the slabs, lift the slabs, bury it, then it comes out on the soil.

    On the soil, ill the cabling sat on the ground on soil, as decking will be built around is, so the cables are covered. The double socket would be screwed onto a joist (this would be the case with the professional job). It would be a permanent connection. WOULD THIS BE SAFE- lets not go overkill with regs- regular layman have you done this safely?

    I know armoured cable is ideal, but im a diyer not a sparky, i wouldnt know how to connect armoured cable or if im doing it properly. I mean, i can wire a plug, and wired lights and replaced sockets and light switches, but this is abit different.

    Also- since i can unplug it, is it a part p notify able issue? I mean, i could literally unplug and cut the wire and voila it was never there? - im looking to sell so dont want problems.

    I know extension leads are not for permanent use, but hey why make outdoor ones and not let us use it permanently!

    I cant clip it to a brick wall to route it to where i need it, the layout doesn't fit that scenario. I could run it across fences to reach the area i need but thats alot more cable and distance, longer the cable more issues right.

    Ps im no expert. But im a damn quick learner.

    School me peoples gime your thoughts.

    But not those by the book people. I need the sensible, but bending the rules ones. You know the ones that take the risk and dont wear a condom sometimes.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. daviesm1976

    daviesm1976

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    Think it is a bit unrealistic to ask electricians this as they obviously have to give advice that meets standards. Might be unreasonable to compare to unprotected sex too!

    Part p depends on if you are in Wales. I think any garden work is notifiable there.

    In England it would depend on if the changes counted as an alteration to an existing circuit. That is why you often get kits with a plug on the end as it doesn't count as a part of the fixed wiring. Even if people might argue it is if your extension lead is clipped in place etc.

    As for safety you have to think that armoured cable is designed to not be accidentally pierced. It might be safe it this is not possible along your route and and is not hidden.
    People do use rubber cable and ponds etc.

    The other thing you need to think about nuisance trips which may cut power to your fridge etc. So you still need to use outdoor cable and prevent water getting into it or the fixings. I wouldn't just lay the cable on the soil if I could avoid it.

    At the end of the day it is you house and even if illegal unlikely to be enforced but ultimately you need to think of the safety of your family and visitors. The house I bought had a sketchy cable running for 20m under decking and ended buried in a flowerbed but was disconnected from the spur so was not picked up by the eicr.
     
  4. JohnD

    JohnD

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    "a website which gives a list of local part p registered sparkys"

    This is very vague. It doesn't sound like you mean one of the "Competent Person" schemes.

    Do you know which scheme your electricians are members of, and have you verified that on the scheme website?

    If you are using a site where people pay to be listed, it is an advertising site.
     
  5. Jerome2020

    Jerome2020

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    https://www.niceic.com/householder/find-a-contractor

    Hi, thanks for the reply. This was the link, came across it as was trying to establish the regs etc.

    Is it just a dud advertising site?

    I am hoping the sparky will go ahead and do it, but based on my experience with tradesman, he simply may not bother.

    And timing is important as I got my decking guy booked. If electrics not ready it all goes ballsup.

    In regards to the legality of what I propose - like mentioned, its unlikely to be enforced, alot of people do it without even taking the steps I've considered. I could simply unplug and cut it if needed. Like it was never there.

    But... My main concern is safety. If my heavy duty cable had its own rcd plug in adapter, it wouldnt trip the whole house only the extension?

    It would be about 15m. Sat on soil (well weed membrane) and underneath decking. But of course whilst its not armoured cable, its heavy duty and covered in pvc conduit. Probably as good as diy jobs get.

    Main worry is probably the burial under two slabs- i know shouldn't bury extension cables... But no other route... Again it would be covered in the conduit


    Appreciate the help. Sorry i thought this was a general forum for diy didn't mean any disrespect about bending rules etc, that was meant to be humorous.
     
  6. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    Bending rules can be very dangerous,

    Just because it is DIY does not mean it can be done in a way that is less than safe

    Then install a duct where the cable will run and pull the cable through it when the installation has been fully designed by a competent person.

    When there is a fault it is most likely that BOTH RCDs will trip simultaneously.
     
  7. JohnD

    JohnD

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  8. Taylortwocities

    Taylortwocities

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    I can’t add to the general stuff above, in fact I cant be rsed to read most of it.
    Two points I will make. The electricians site above is restricted to NICEIC. This site is better because it has everybody.
    https://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/

    also I don’t believe that pond fountain is 400watt, unless you are doing Trafalgar Square!
    30watt is more typical.
     
  9. Jerome2020

    Jerome2020

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    Yeah i was probably off on that, i just remembered is was no where near the 3000w limit.


    Diy job isn't preferable, and i appreciate as electricans you have to advise on the side of caution- from what ive read most people just do it with far less consideration than me with far more power consumption devices loke hot tubs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15 Aug 2020
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  11. Jerome2020

    Jerome2020

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    Sorry my last comment got jumbled up with the previous comment
     
  12. winston1

    winston1

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    There is no such thing as a part P registered sparky. Part P is a building reg not a registration scheme.

    There is no rule saying you can’t take two spurs off one socket. What you can’t do is have two sockets on one spur.

    Personally I think you are way out of your depth on this and you should get a spark in. But get one who will do all the required testing and supply the required paperwork.
     
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  13. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    The amount of power supplied is almost irrelevant when considering the risk of injury. The major hazard is death by electric shock when the work is not done in a safe and proper manner.
     
  14. Taylortwocities

    Taylortwocities

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    I really love it when Whinsome gets found out. For weeks he has been denying that it is him who has invented the user name
    Banallsheds on the screwfix forum. (I wonder why he chose that name?).
    Winston has several hobby horses that he has ridden for a long time. All of a sudden he has a new one on here - number of spurs from one socket.
    Guess what he is grinding on about on the screwfix forum:-
    713E529C-AAC7-4D5F-A443-C68B012B4E48.jpeg

    Give it up Winnie, you’ve tripped up.
     
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  15. DetlefSchmitz

    DetlefSchmitz

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    Bit freudian if you ask me.
     
  16. oldbutnotdead

    oldbutnotdead

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    If you're selling, why are you potching about with decking & outside lights?

    When it comes to survey time surveyors (with their tickbox Ipad apps) will tick the boxes marked Decking and External Power which will generate screeds of paper about planning permission and installation certificates. Outside lights etc are not notifiable on their own in England (and in England decking is usually pd if its less than 300mm AGL) but still a load of potential hassle.
    Back to the job- safest is SWA buried or flex ducted to waterproof enclosure where power supplies can be located- the 12v wiring can be clipped under the decking. Any of those quotes are reasonable for the job if you don't want to do it, the test documentation will be handy at survey time
     
  17. Jerome2020

    Jerome2020

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    Fair question - mainly because I'm doing it at a very reasonable price, and i dont think the house sale will be an overnight thing, i expect the process to take at least a year, maybe longer. So i would like to enjoy my home in the interim.
     
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