Part P. Confusion encore...

[securespark]

Talking to an NIC spark at the counter yesterday.

He is under the impression that any electrical work that does not require Planning Permission as part of that work, can be carried out without falling foul of Part P.

He has contacted the NIC and been told he will need to go through the same procedure that the NIC put other sparks through to get Part P compliant.

 

[Damocles]

So what he should have said was anything which did nor require building regulations consent would not fall foul of part P. Which would be exactly correct.

 

[TexMex]

Am I right in believing that, where Part P is indicated, you are still allowed to do it if you get a BCO to inspect?

 

[Damocles]

Part P is a building regulation. Building inspectors are there to inspect and certify work you or your builder/plumber/electrician/roofer/bricklayer have done.

Only building control by all accounts have not really got the hang of it yet.

 

[TexMex]

So the way I read it. Part P just allows me to self certify. The alternative is to call building control and give them at least 3 days notice of what I'm about to do. It's then up to them if they want to inspect. Either way, I'm covered.

 

[Damocles]

erm, not quite sure what you meant there. If you are registered under a scheme approved by the fat controller for certifying compliance with part P, then you can certify it. If not, then you can't. If it is one of the jobs listed as requiring either notification or certification, then you are supposed to be certified or notify. If it one of the jobs listed as not requiring you to be certified etc etc, then you can do it (or have it done by the guy in the pub) without notifying or being certified.


But I think you are right, you are required to do the work with proper regard to design, safety and supplying documentation to the user, irrespective. But I hardly think anyone is going to worry about the non-notifiable stuff since they can't figure out what do about the notifiable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So the way I read it. Part P just allows me to self certify. The alternative is to call building control and give them at least 3 days notice of what I'm about to do. It's then up to them if they want to inspect. Either way, I'm covered.

But once you tell them it is not up to you whether you pay their charge.

 

[securespark]

So what he should have said was anything which did nor require building regulations consent would not fall foul of part P. Which would be exactly correct.

Basically what he said was that he was carrying out any work he pleased regardless of where in the house or what sort of electrical job it was. As far as he was concerned, if planning permission did not need to be sought, he was OK to ignore Part P.

 

[Albert]

So what he should have said was anything which did nor require building regulations consent would not fall foul of part P. Which would be exactly correct.

Basically what he said was that he was carrying out any work he pleased regardless of where in the house or what sort of electrical job it was. As far as he was concerned, if planning permission did not need to be sought, he was OK to ignore Part P.

Hi, long time no talk,
I don't think that 'ignoring' part P' it the correct terminology, what ever you do whether it is notifiable or not you still must do the job according the BS7671, you can do jobs that do not require notification as DIY but you will need than to get a competent person to test an self certify it for you.

 

[plugwash]

part P does NOT require compliance with BS7671 despite what some local authorities seem to think

 

[Albert]

part P does NOT require compliance with BS7671 despite what some local authorities seem to think

Being a competent person is one of the requirements, you must know and understand BS 7671 to be competent...being more specific in Part P under "Definitions" part 0.4 it says that "Electrical installation is defined in BS 7671 etc..." in part 0.8 of 'Notification of work' "...In these case the person is responsible for ensuring compliance with BS 7671: 2001 and all relevant building regulations" I think that this is a link or i completely missed something..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

part P does NOT require compliance with BS7671 despite what some local authorities seem to think

Being a competent person is one of the requirements,

One of the requirements of what? Please don't confuse being a competent person with being a Competent Person - the two are completely separate..

you must know and understand BS 7671 to be competent

So all the electricians in the USA who know and understand the NEC, but have never heard of BS7671, and may not even know where Britain is, are incompetent, are they?

...being more specific in Part P under "Definitions" part 0.4 it says that "Electrical installation is defined in BS 7671 etc..."

Let's look at that in more detail, shall we?

Definitions

0.4 The following meanings apply throughout
this document:

Electrical installation is defined in BS 7671
as....

And what is "this document"? It is, of course, Approved Document P. Albert - we've been through this before, Approved Document P is not the law..

in part 0.8 of 'Notification of work' "...In these case the person is responsible for ensuring compliance with BS 7671: 2001 and all relevant building regulations"

That may be what Approved Document P says, but it is not what the law says. You will be complying with the law if you follow what Approved Document P says, but it is not necessary to follow it to comply with the law.

I think that this is a link or i completely missed something..

Yes - the same thing you missed last time!!.

Approved Document P is merely guidance on how you might comply with the law. It is not the law itself. This is the law: Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004. That law does not mandate compliance with BS7671.

 

[Albert]

You don't need to shout, I can hear you...
As I said before I checked this issue with the C&G, NICEIC and IEE, and this was after our previous posts. As I take seriously your opinion, I asked them very clearly, and the answer was that Part P is part of the building regulations and they are not only recommendation but not complying with part P is like not complying with the law. Call them and see what they say

 

[Damocles]

Most of the building regulations say something general like 'the building must be well insulated'. They then go on to say things like 'one way to achieve well insulatedeness is to have 24 inches of fibreglass across your loft'.

It is initially a matter of opinion by the inspector whether or not you have managed to 'well insulate', but if you have put '24 inches of fibreglass in the loft' then he has no say in the matter. He must accept your work because you followed one of the examples listed in the building regs. If instead you choose to use an 'infill of foamed cement', then it is initially up to him whether he will consider this as 'well insulated'. He might ask you to produce calculations regarding the insulating values of foamed cement. If finally he refuses to accept your work I imagine you can appeal to somewhere over his head.

So if you follow the example set out, then he has to accept your work. If not, then you may have to prove you have complied, or he may have to prove that you have not.

Bear in mind that the regulations do explicitly state other sets of regulations from other European countries are equally acceptable to comply.

 

[Albert]

I can tell you that i'm not mad about part P just like most of the people in this market. The point is that by discussing this issues we might not fall to a trap created by these bizarre part P, in my opinion the general idea behind it was good but the implementation is a disaster..It is very well to say that these are only recommendations, but if you read the regulations in BS7671 (for example) it in many cases put a very clear requirements which you must follow (in some others you don't know what the hell they are taking about), and what i said is that if you read part P you will find that there is a link between part P and BS 7671.
Albert