Part P - Semantics

[Shawnobi]

I'm hoping some of you can clarify something for Me. A bit of background, I am qualified to BS7671 and have a background in electrical design within industry. I am not a domestic electrician and hence my question regarding Part P relating to a job at home.

I had a shed at my property which I pulled down and replaced with a garage. The shed had a supply which came from a B32 breaker (RCD protected). Feeding some T&E which leaves the house and threads up the garden through the hedge (!!) to a JB in the shed which fed a lamp and a double socket.

I've designed new final radials for a new lamp and a couple of sockets from a sub board and 4mm SWA feeding back to the house. Happy with all of that.

I'm then planning to terminate the SWA in a new J/B inside the house and connect to the existing B32 using the existing 4mm T&E which looks ok. Then grab the Megger from work and perform the relevant tests and complete the Installation Condition report.

My question is around peoples views on whether this is a 'new circuit' and notifiable under Part P; which is the part I cannot do. I'm currently giving myself arguments either way so require some better experienced folk to make sense of it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Notch7]

I believe notifiable work includes additions to existing circuits in kitchens, bathrooms, outdoors.......

If thats the case, it wouldnt matter if what you are doing is new circuit or not.

But Im not a electrician so best wait for a pro to come along......

 

[davelx]

No, in England, it's much narrower than that:

(a) new circuits
(b) replacement of consumer unit
(c) addition or alterations to existing circuits in a special location.

As far as a domestic dwelling goes, "special location" means within the zones in a bathroom, or, if you are lucky enough to live in that sort of house, in a room containing a swimming pool or sauna heater.

Modifications to existing circuits anywhere other than in a special location are not notifiable. More info in the Wiki:

https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:part_p:Statutory-Instrument#

 

[Shawnobi]

Modifications to existing circuits anywhere other than in a special location are not notifiable. More info in the Wiki:

https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electricsart_p:Statutory-Instrument#

Yes, see this is my reading of it. That it falls under a modification to an existing circuit and as such is non notifiable.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, see this is my reading of it. That it falls under a modification to an existing circuit and as such is non notifiable.

You are correct.

However, as your thread is titled semantics:

My question is around peoples views on whether this is a 'new circuit' and notifiable under Part P; which is the part I cannot do.

As you have seen, notifiable or not is covered by Regulation 12; not Part P. Part P applies to all domestic work.

Because it is not notifiable does not mean you can comply with Part P if you do not have the necessary knowledge and equipment.

 

[Shawnobi]

You are correct.

However, as your thread is titled semantics:

As you have seen, notifiable or not is covered by Regulation 12; not Part P. Part P applies to all domestic work.

Because it is not notifiable does not mean you can comply with Part P if you do not have the necessary knowledge and equipment.

Yes. The work is covered under Part P, but this work is non-notifiable. Part P calls up BS7671 which ensures that I am Competent (skilled) to carry out the work.

I think that is what you are referring to with your statement? In that just because you don't have to notify something it doesn't mean Part P and consequently BS7671:2018 do not apply.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, see this is my reading of it. That it falls under a modification to an existing circuit and as such is non notifiable.

Au contraire

You are ceasing/removing the old 2.5mm² T&E. That is job 1
Then you are providing a brand new circuit - the 4mm² SWA cable. Completely different characteristics to the original. That is a separate job (2).

That is a 100% brand new circuit and is notifiable work.

Not sure how/what the SWA will terminate on? A small "garage" CU with an RCD and a couple of MCBs?
That's a new consumer unit - notifiable, and the circuits you connect to it will be new circuits. Also notifiable. Job 3./

 

[EFLImpudence]

Replying to Shawnobi -

No.

Part P applies to all domestic work no matter who does it.

The notification requirements are completely separate.

 

[JohnD]

Athough Requirement P1 of the Building Regulations is only 28 words long.

There is no Requirement P2.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As you can see - whether your work is a new circuit or not is open to interpretation.

 

[Shawnobi]

Au contraire

You are ceasing/removing the old 2.5mm² T&E. That is job 1
Then you are providing a brand new circuit - the 4mm² SWA cable. Completely different characteristics to the original. That is a separate job (2).

That is a 100% brand new circuit and is notifiable work.

Not sure how/what the SWA will terminate on? A small "garage" CU with an RCD and a couple of MCBs?
That's a new consumer unit - notifiable, and the circuits you connect to it will be new circuits. Also notifiable. Job 3./

The existing 4mm2 T&E is remaining from the CU. It is being cut and connected to a new JB where the SWA will be connected.
Strangely Part P mentions CU replacement is notifiable. I don't think the garage can be classed as a 'new dwelling'. Surely any alteration to a circuit will have different characteristics?

Go on. I'm just trying to draw some opinion. Ultimately I think I'll be contacting my local building control to get their verdict in writing.

 

[JohnD]

I incline to the view that it you have a building with an electricity circuit, and you demolish that building and erect a new one, and put an electricity circuit in it, then it is a new circuit.

Do you think you can argue otherwise?

Think of the trouble and expense housebuilders could save.

 

[Shawnobi]

I incline to the view that it you have a building with an electricity circuit, and you demolish that building and erect a new one, and put an electricity circuit in it, then it is a new circuit.

Do you think you can argue otherwise?

My intention isn't to disagree or argue. I'm asking for opinions. I gues I just hoped they were all of the same! What is considered an alteration of an existing circuit? Anything hanging off the end of the bit of wire connected to the MCB?

 

[JohnW2]

.... Part P calls up BS7671 which ensures that I am Competent (skilled) to carry out the work.

The one sentence which is 'Part P' of the Building Regulations says nothing about BS7671.

Compliance with BS7671 is what people usually rely on to demonstrate compliance with Part P, but that compliance with BS7671 itself requires that the person undertaking the work had adequate competence/skill. In other words, compliance with detailed requirements (e.g. cables of an adequate size etc.) of BS7671 does not prove general skill/competence, whereas full compliance with BS7671 requires such skill/competence. For example ...

132.1 General
The electrical installation shall be designed by one or more skilled persons to provide for:
(i) the protection of persons, livestock and property in accordance with Section 131
(ii) the proper functioning of the electrical installation for the intended use.

134.1.1 Good workmanship by one or more skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in
the erection of the electrical installation.

134.2.1 During erection and on completion of an installation or an addition or alteration to an installation,
and before it is put into service, appropriate inspection and testing shall be carried out by skilled persons competent
to verify that the requirements of this Standard have been met.

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

whether this is a 'new circuit' and notifiable under Part P; which is the part I cannot do.

Anyone can do notifiable electrical work - the notification involves sending a building notice to your local building control department with whatever fee they charge.