Permanent extension lead

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When does an extension lead cease being an extension lead ?

If I mount a 2 gang box/socket on a wall, run a flex to this box from a three point plug, and had this plugged into a ring main, would that be acceptable ?
 
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Yes the only difference is you are clipping the cable to a wall, probably much safer than trailing across a floor
 
When does an extension lead cease being an extension lead ?

If I mount a 2 gang box/socket on a wall, run a flex to this box from a three point plug, and had this plugged into a ring main, would that be acceptable ?
Electric regulations wise OK, Welsh Part P technically depends who made the extension lead, if bought pre made OK, if you have made it and fasten it to the wall in the kitchen then it needs notifying. I think one would be crazy to do so, but as the law was written by the English and inherited by the Welsh a kitchen is a special location so anything fixed needs notifying.
 
This would be in Scotland and in a workshop, At the moment extension lead across floor and through doorway (left there permanently). I can reroute the extension lead so as it goes to bench wihout being a nuisance or danger, but it would be permanently in place (hole through wall ) but the end of the extension would still be loose. So if I made the end of the extension lead a 2 gang box and fitted to wall with cable clipped to wall, the plug on the extension lead would still be plugged into ring main - would sort of be the same thing or may be not?
 
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Yes the only difference is you are clipping the cable to a wall, probably much safer than trailing across a floor
Quite. Despite any discussions about regulations and laws, this is a situation in which, at least in my opinion, common sense should prevail!

Kind Regards, John
 
... if you have made it and fasten it to the wall in the kitchen then it needs notifying. I think one would be crazy to do so, but as the law was written by the English and inherited by the Welsh a kitchen is a special location so anything fixed needs notifying.
Quite apart from the fact that (as you say) to notify such 'work' would be crazy, although the English initially wrote the laws about notification, some 8 years later they considerably relaxed (in some cases, 'rationalised') the requirements but, for whatever reason, the Welsh chose not to 'inherit' those changes - so you can't really blame the English (after 2013).

Kind Regards, John
 
Quite apart from the fact that (as you say) to notify such 'work' would be crazy, although the English initially wrote the laws about notification, some 8 years later they considerably relaxed (in some cases, 'rationalised') the requirements but, for whatever reason, the Welsh chose not to 'inherit' those changes - so you can't really blame the English (after 2013).

Kind Regards, John
Hear Hear! This could now get political!............................................. The 2005 regulations were brought in by Labour, the 2013 relaxations (almost abandonment) of the regulations by the Conservatives. I wonder which party holds the Senedd???????? Yes, that's right, Labour. Perhaps this may give a clue as to why the Senedd did not relax the rules at the same time.
 
Hear Hear! This could now get political!............................................. The 2005 regulations were brought in by Labour, the 2013 relaxations (almost abandonment) of the regulations by the Conservatives. I wonder which party holds the Senedd???????? Yes, that's right, Labour. Perhaps this may give a clue as to why the Senedd did not relax the rules at the same time.
Interesting thought, and you could be right.

On the other hand, it's also possible that some individual(s) in the Welsh government felt (as do a good few people in England) that if they were to continue having notification at all in Wales, it would be a bit of a joke if they followed the English 'relaxations' (which, as you say, almost amounted to 'abandonment).

Having said that, given the alleged intent behind the introduction of Part P (and 'notification'), I wonder if there was a noticeable reduction (in both countries) in issues (including injuries and deaths) due to poor electrical work following its introduction in 2005 and/or whether there was any divergence of the incidences in the two countries of such issues following England's (but not Wales') near-abandonment in 2013. Despite the good intentions, I rather suspect that the answer to both questions is roughly 'no'!

Kind Regards, John
 
Since @Munroast does not care to say where they live, we need to make aware there are different rules. As to Wales not removing the requirement, it could be simply down to not getting around to it, there is a language problem in Wales, all laws must also be published in Welsh, including anything refereed to in the laws, and as yet not seen a copy of BS7671 in Welsh, so to redo the English law is not that easy.
 
Since [B]@Munroast does not care to say where they live,[/B] we need to make aware there are different rules. As to Wales not removing the requirement, it could be simply down to not getting around to it, there is a language problem in Wales, all laws must also be published in Welsh, including anything refereed to in the laws, and as yet not seen a copy of BS7671 in Welsh, so to redo the English law is not that easy.
I did, post #4, "this would be in Scotland"
 
My interpretation (and the way inspection/testing is performed by the several companies I work for) is:
Anything portable is portable and PATed.
Anything non portable is part of fixed system, so anything fixed to the fabric of the building cannot be portable.
Fixed can be a difficult thing to establish sometimes, however in this case a cable passing through a hole in the wall too small for the plug added to the socket screwed to the wall would in my opinion be deemed to be fixed.

A 4 way socket extention lead 'hanging' on screws in keyhole slots (ie lift offable) and plugged into a socket with no cable clips etc would be portable, even if never removed, in my opinion.

I know not of the electrical rules in Scotland other than a very obnoxious Scottish electrician (very much not a slight on the country) repeatedly rattling on about how much better they're rules are... He used to switch the neutralo_O
 
As to Wales not removing the requirement, it could be simply down to not getting around to it, there is a language problem in Wales, all laws must also be published in Welsh, including anything refereed to in the laws, and as yet not seen a copy of BS7671 in Welsh, so to redo the English law is not that easy.
BS7671 is nothing to do with law, so it doesn't matter whether or not it is available in Welsh, does it?

The Welsh government are continuing to enforce the original (2005) notification rules - so are you saying that they have been published in Welsh?

Kind Regards, John
 
... A 4 way socket extention lead 'hanging' on screws in keyhole slots (ie lift offable) and plugged into a socket with no cable clips etc would be portable, even if never removed, in my opinion.
That seems very logical and reasonable. However, what I would suggest is probably not "logical and reasonable" is that, in Wales, addition of just one cable clip (may to reduce trip hazards) might change everything in a manner that has appreciable financial implications!

Kind Regards, John
 
I know not of the electrical rules in Scotland
Assuming the workshop can be considered a "non-residential building", and not accessible to the public, then most electrical work does not require notification or building warrant. It would be good practice to have strain relief on the flex entering the box.
 

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