pipework under screed
- Thread starter billybez
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Gasguru said:
How can you guys claim to be professional ?
I last seen hair felt lagging used in my home 25 years ago by a cowboy plumber.
Your a bunch of amatuers.
If you walked into a new build of mine and started wrapping pipes with hair felt lagging I would have you chased off the site.
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Denso tape is no longer allowed on gas pipes in screed.
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billybez said:
cowboyplumber said:
It aint a gas pipe I would be inclined to try and find or create another route or re-arrange the system so that you dont need to go under the floor.
If there was no other option I would exceed any requirement and prefer treating the pipework as though it was a gas or potable water pipe with a ducting and some form of access in case anything went wrong.
The least I would settle for with a disclaimer is to use a plastic pipe with no joins in it and run this through a larger pipe as a sheath to allow for expansion, contraction and any movement in the floor.
Granted that under floor heating systems use plastic pipe in the screed but these are restricted to 50ºC to avoid problems mentioned above.
Slugbabydotcom wrote
Thats bodging.
What would you suggest ? Track the walls ?
No need to exceed any requirement if they are joined correctly and tested.
Are you suggesting placing CH copper pipes in ducting that leaves them fully accessible from above due to bodged diy soldering ?.
If the OP or anyone for that matter cannot solder confidently and competently then they should not be doing the job.
I have seen plumbers doing this on new build 3 bedroom semi's. However they then used a rad tail piece which had to join to the plastic piping using a pushfit elbow connector under the screed at the base of each rad stub.
The pipe may be in one piece from their manifold but it makes a joint of dubious quality in my opinion under the screed and leaves the pipe non- retractable anyway.
Some are piped in at full boiler temp using certain types of valves.
Thats bodging.
What would you suggest ? Track the walls ?
No need to exceed any requirement if they are joined correctly and tested.
Are you suggesting placing CH copper pipes in ducting that leaves them fully accessible from above due to bodged diy soldering ?.
If the OP or anyone for that matter cannot solder confidently and competently then they should not be doing the job.
I have seen plumbers doing this on new build 3 bedroom semi's. However they then used a rad tail piece which had to join to the plastic piping using a pushfit elbow connector under the screed at the base of each rad stub.
The pipe may be in one piece from their manifold but it makes a joint of dubious quality in my opinion under the screed and leaves the pipe non- retractable anyway.
Some are piped in at full boiler temp using certain types of valves.
Which is?.
Which are?.
I'am very interested to know, and always willing to learn.
Maybe your next post could actually aid the OP.
Balenza said:clf-gas said:
Which is?.
Which are?.
I'am very interested to know, and always willing to learn.
Maybe your next post could actually aid the OP.
You have a short span of attention clf.
Well
It ain't bodging! Its called using your brain to come up with a better solution.
Anything is better than running any pipe through a concrete floor. Copper and concrete don't mix.
There is nothing wrong in exceeding any requirement. It's only when requirements are not met and common sense is not used that you get problems. To draw a parrallel. Common sense tells you not to fit electrical sockets under a sink unit where they may get wet yet there is apparently no law or guidance saying otherwise.
Running pipes in walls beats running pipes in ground level or concrete floors IMO. People have habits of spending lots of money on floor coverings tiles hardwoods and laminates etc. On the occasions when you do get a leak; the ones under floors are the worst to deal with.
Talking now specifically of using copper in armaflex insulation
If thats true then it also means that they are semi wet!
From the armaflex website
Ah now I see where your opinions come from.
If you spend some time on repairs and maintenance you will see all the time bombs that have been created by new build workers in the past.
Perhaps you have never had the privilege of telling someone that has just spent a load of money getting their whole ground floor covered in expensive tiles or wood that somewhere underneath it there is a leak. The most competent plumbers have been sold a faulty fitting and pipes have split due to impurities or mechanical damage. I can cite loads of instances but dont wish to spend a week writing about it.
Anything is better than running any pipe through a concrete floor. Copper and concrete don't mix.
There is nothing wrong in exceeding any requirement. It's only when requirements are not met and common sense is not used that you get problems. To draw a parrallel. Common sense tells you not to fit electrical sockets under a sink unit where they may get wet yet there is apparently no law or guidance saying otherwise.
Running pipes in walls beats running pipes in ground level or concrete floors IMO. People have habits of spending lots of money on floor coverings tiles hardwoods and laminates etc. On the occasions when you do get a leak; the ones under floors are the worst to deal with.
Talking now specifically of using copper in armaflex insulation
If thats true then it also means that they are semi wet! From the armaflex website
They used to think that about polystyrene fill that they used for wall insulation. Years down the line they have degraded and can sap water and damage walls
It isn't a 'normally' when the dpm fails or there is another source of moisture such as an undetected leaking rad valve
Ah now I see where your opinions come from.
If you spend some time on repairs and maintenance you will see all the time bombs that have been created by new build workers in the past.
Perhaps you have never had the privilege of telling someone that has just spent a load of money getting their whole ground floor covered in expensive tiles or wood that somewhere underneath it there is a leak. The most competent plumbers have been sold a faulty fitting and pipes have split due to impurities or mechanical damage. I can cite loads of instances but dont wish to spend a week writing about it.
Slugbabydotcom wrote
It is bodging. If thats the best you can come up with you wouldnt get near my place.
Since when was concrete used to finish of a floor inside a new build or extension.
There is. It causes unecessary expense.
Common sense would tell me not to waste my time wrapping copper pipes in denso or otherwise.
No one has mentioned running pipes in concrete.
SAND and CEMENT SCREED/SEMI DRY.
I could take you 40 newbuilds near my area currently being installed this way. ie pipes buried in SAND and CEMENT screed. SEMI DRY.
If you are competent you will not have leaks.
You know nothing about screeds and how they are mixed.
Totally different.
Armaflex is buried in the screed with a low moisture content to begin with which then drys out powder dry and stays that way unlike a cavity which can be penetrated with moisture.
More nonsense.
Yes thats right. Pipes and components can fail.
be they copper,plastic,aluminimum,stainless steel, iron or whatever.
My home had copper buried in the screed 25 years ago and not one joint failure under the screed.
For the plumber to have fitted them in the walls would have been a nightmare.
Only someone with limited experience in installation would make such a suggestion.
It is bodging. If thats the best you can come up with you wouldnt get near my place.
Since when was concrete used to finish of a floor inside a new build or extension.
.
There is. It causes unecessary expense.
Common sense would tell me not to waste my time wrapping copper pipes in denso or otherwise.
No one has mentioned running pipes in concrete.
SAND and CEMENT SCREED/SEMI DRY.
I could take you 40 newbuilds near my area currently being installed this way. ie pipes buried in SAND and CEMENT screed. SEMI DRY.
If you are competent you will not have leaks.
You know nothing about screeds and how they are mixed.
Totally different.
Armaflex is buried in the screed with a low moisture content to begin with which then drys out powder dry and stays that way unlike a cavity which can be penetrated with moisture.
More nonsense.
Yes thats right. Pipes and components can fail.
be they copper,plastic,aluminimum,stainless steel, iron or whatever.
My home had copper buried in the screed 25 years ago and not one joint failure under the screed.
For the plumber to have fitted them in the walls would have been a nightmare.
Only someone with limited experience in installation would make such a suggestion.
ChrisR said:
The joints can all be glued with Armaflex adhesive or
alternatively you can use their jointing tape or both.
Their would be no elbows under the rad tails if using copper.
Also ,if you are doing a first fix without the rads, the insulation allows some lateral movement of the pipe which hepls a lot when making the final connection to the radiators.
Given that there's never one universally best method to do anything, and given that some people successfully use Denzo and tape, and some other people successfully use tubular foam insulation, can you explain exactly what you mean by "bodging"?Balenza said:
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