Planning permission for 1985 extension

[Terry7556]

a member of my family is purchasing a house that is a Victorian semi detached terrace. The vendor has lived there for approximately 30/35 years ago.
He had a single storey kitchen extension in 1985 ish and a lean to on the side of that at a later date.
On the house questionnaire/ property information sheetsurvey he provided to his own solicitor and ultimately us, he said there was not an extension built.at the weekend during a conversation between us he admitted this was incorrect .
Today an email arrived from our solicitor saying that he suspects the vendor does not have a completion certificate and will not obtain one as the local council in Surrey did not issue them at that time.our solicitor then says if he were advising him, he would say do not apply for one retrospectively as it would open a can of worms
Also indemnity insurance is fairly worthless because a breach of the building regs can only be enforced when the work was completed less than 12 months ago if the property is structurally unsafe.therfore the current condition of the extension is of more importance than whether a completion certificate was obtained 30 years ago.you should therefore refer to your survey.if no concerns have been expressed as to the structural safety of the extension, then there is no longer any building regulations issue
Would anyone offer any opinions/ advice about the above please. I personally am annoyed about this and wonder on who's behalf this solicitor is working
The only can of worms I see being opened is one of bad workmanship
Also does anyone have knowledge of what procedures were in place at that time to sign off work after the various stages of a build

 

[Terry7556]

I happened to email the council/ planners/ building regs dept today about a couple of points such as breaking into a sewer as we intend to move the bathroom upstairs( also notify able)
They phoned me within 3 hours and I had a chat with a very helpful member of staff.
I think I need to call them tomorrow to ask about this but I'm not certain if it's an area they will offer advice on other than to say what procedures were in place 30 years ago

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Unless it looks like it's about to fall down then what's the problem? If there were any major problems with the build they would have already materialised by now, there are thousands of similar builds without permission for this or that, I'm sitting in such a build as I type. For once your solicitors advice is sound. Though building control can prosecute with respect to structural safety at any time. The cut off for obtaining Retrospective Building Regs approval is Nov 1985 coincidentally though I cannot see any point in applying, have you any idea whatsoever what is involved in getting regularization? Structures exposed, cavities explored, trial pits dug and then anything not perfect potentially upgraded, complete nightmare not to mention expensive and for what purpose? To satisfy the whims of an unknowledgeable buyer, if some numpty expects that of me when I sell this place they can do one!

 

[Terry7556]

It looks in good condition Freddie
Flat roof, etc.
I'm not happy with the way the seller has behaved earlier on in the sale and it's colouring my opinion of him

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Well sometimes you just gotta look past the person/paint, if you're DIY savvy have a good scan around, see what the quality of the house as a whole is like as well as the extension, the seller of my current house place was none too impressed as spent a couple of hours one Saturday and looked in every cranny and corner and pulled up his loft insulation etc and when I emerged from a half hour under his suspended floor covered in dust I thought he was gonna have a stroke, I slept soundly that night though, those few hours were worth ten times any pointless survey.

 

[tony1851]

I've just realized that my house was built in 1926 without Planning Permission - and I can't find any completion certificates! All there is is a paper telling me I can't keep pigs, poultry or other livestock in the back garden - you've got me really worried now

 

[^woody^]

I've just realized that my house was built in 1926 without Planning Permission - and I can't find any completion certificates! All there is is a paper telling me I can't keep pigs, poultry or other livestock in the back garden - you've got me really worried now

I'll take the chickens and a couple of sheep off you then.

 

[^woody^]

Also does anyone have knowledge of what procedures were in place at that time to sign off work after the various stages of a build

Yes, but that does not matter.

What should matter is that your Solicitor give you proper advice and opinion based on his knowledge of law. ie its all beyond enforcement and a buyer can happily buy it without any issues in terms of planning and building regulations.

And tell the Solicitor he/she is a dope and just to do the job you are paying him/her to do.

If there are concerns about the current condition, then it should be surveyed. But that wont have anything to do with past planning or building regulation permission, but it will tell you if its in sound condition after over 30 years.

 

[tony1851]

This and several other past threads show that many conveyancing solicitors can fret over pointless issues (caused ultimately by a lack of basic knowledge)
and can cause vendors and purchasers no end of unnecessary trouble.

[From personal experience; a client of mine from two years ago is now selling his house, and the purchaser's solicitor is asking for stamped approved (ie paper) copies of the plans for Planning Permission for the extension, clearly not realising that those went out with the Ark. This lack of an official stamped drawing is needlessly causing the purchasers some concern (and if they back out, he will of course charge them handsomely for his stupidity)].

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

And tell the Solicitor he/she is a dope and just to do the job you are paying him/her to do.

This and several other past threads show that many conveyancing solicitors can fret over pointless issues

AFAIK the solicitor has said the buyer should not bother with regularization, they have said an indemnity is pointless and if there are concerns about the structural integrity a survey should be undertaken, so where are you guys seeing the solicitor having been a dope?

 

[^woody^]

Clear as mud.

The Solicitor is a dope by default though.

 

[wessex101]

In this sort of situation I would differentiate between a "completion certificate" and "building regulations approval notice"

If the extension was built without a building regulations application being submitted (assuming it was not exempt) then chances are it was built to a lower standard than the regulations at the time or by a cowboy or probably both. The building may well be structurally sound but may not be built with the correct drainage or levels of insulation etc. it might not be a deal breaker but I would take the view that it might not be worth as much as a house with a fully compliant extension. A family member recently bought a house with a very poor flat roof extension that was built without building regs approval. It's still standing but you can tell it is sub-standard, it is freezing cold so probably has inadequate insulation, the flat roof is terrible, the rainwater just discharges onto the patio so it floods when it rains etc. etc. We could see this from our survey and reflected this in the offer that we would need to upgrade the extension, the house is simply worth less than if it had a well built extension.

If the extension did have an application and received an approval notice for a full plans application (I think Building Notices were introduced in 1985) but simply did not receive a completion certificate that might be less of a problem. If the vendor can confirm an application was submitted and approved you can check if any site inspections were made. I seem to recall there was a post on here ages ago and most of the regular posters admitted that they never bothered to get completion certificates for work on their own homes. I have not got one on my house but the only reason was the window company fitted the wrong hinges and the electrics weren't quite finished and I never got around to sorting it out. Everything else was inspected and is done to a very high standard but in the unlikely event I ever sell this place I know I will get grief from the purchaser's solicitor.

 

[Terry7556]

Ok boys, a small update
This morning I spoke to Elmbridge building regs ,the young lady who I fortunately emailed and spoke to yesterday about the drainage matters
As we spoke she hit the computer on the address
In 1958 a rear garage was built at the bottom of the garden ( no longer there)
In 1987 an application was made to build a single storey kitchen and bathroom extension with alterations to the drainage system.
There were no further entries of inspections or a record of a completion certificate being issued
This is the extension in question, the one I stood in on Saturday morning with the vendor holding the house purchase questionnaires in which he ticked the NO box for any extensions on the property?

 

[^woody^]

This is the extension in question, the one I stood in on Saturday morning with the vendor holding the house purchase questionnaires in which he ticked the NO box for any extensions on the property?

The sales questionnaires are a nonsense as it's always implicit on the buyer to make independent enquiries as necessary.

It's very common for sellers to answer "no extensions" when they mean that they have not had any extensions built while they were there, and not that there are no extensions.

Council records are never 100% accurate. Never.

 

[Terry7556]

Woody this vendor replied no extensions in a house where he paid for the 1987 extension and that he has lived in since 1985/86