Planning permission for fence (restrospective) refused!

[arakis777]

Hi

Last year my wife and I had our poor quality front hedge taken down and replaced by an expensive white American style PVC picket fence. It is not garish or over the top in any way. It is meant to never fade in colour and we bought it from a UK based company. We had it professionally installed and had loads of compliments from our neighbours and even passers by. Our neighbour next door is the exception. He is a psycho and attacked my wife in front of myself and our witnesses inside our house. He stood trial but got off on very dubious circumstances, we have asked for a judicial inquiry on this? He is the reason we replaced the hedge as no one could see our house from the road, and therefore gave him more cover to attack my wife in our house. He tried to strangle the previous family’s son at our house and he and his partner have criminal records.

Anyway he complained to the council that our fence is marginally over 1 metre at the front. While technically correct, it is set back over a foot from the path edge (we have a grass strip running along this width), there is also the fact we have a raised road so the fence is actually lower than the road!

A nice lady from the planning dept came out told my wife she thought the fence was 'lovely' and we shouldn't have a problem if we raised a retrospective planning permission request.

We duly this and several weeks down the line were shocked to see it has been refused. The reason being given is that it contravenes the following document. The refusal was not based on the height of the fence at all. It was based on section 64 of the following document.

National Planning Policy Framework

Section 64

Permission should be refused for development of poor design that fails totake the opportunities available for improving the character and quality of an area and the way it functions

The council said we should do the following

Move it back by about 1.5 metres (5 feet approx), replant a hedge and paint the fence brown or black to match others on the road.

Firstly the fence posts are cemented into the ground so can't be moved. The original hedge was only over a foot thick and of poor quality. The fence is not meant to be painted and would look awful if we did.

We really can't believe the council on this, whilst we live on a nice looking road our fence definitely improves the area.

We are not living in a council house or listed area. The road we live on is a complete mixture of fronts, hedges, fences, stone walls, metal fences etc.

Anyway I know we have one chance to appeal, what is the best way get a petition signed by the neighbours, contact some firm that deals with appeals (could be costly), send pictures etc? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Arakis777

 

[indus]

I'll let the experts deal with the planning issues but...

If I lived next door to a guy who attacked my wife and strangled somebody else I would want one of three things to happen

1) The guy get's banged up

If not

2) Somebody puts him in a wheelchair

If not

3) I would move.

Not many things would force me out of my house, but a violent nut job who physically attacks people is one of them!

 

[noseall]

Firstly the fence posts are cemented into the ground so can't be moved.

It must be special concrete then because I've shifted loads of concreted-in fence posts.

White picket fence, very...er...quaint?

So, you replaced a hedge with a fence so that people would have a better view of the neighbour, should he wish to strangle your wife in your house?

...which he did but "got off with it" having been tried in front of a jury?

What a bizarre post.

They are odd bug gers them planning folk. They did something similar when we built a new wall where a hedge had been partially demolished by a bad van driver only for the homeowner to be told to re-plant the hedge in front of the new wall.

 

[arakis777]

I'll let the experts deal with the planning issues but...

If I lived next door to a guy who attacked my wife and strangled somebody else I would want one of three things to happen

1) The guy get's banged up

If not

2) Somebody puts him in a wheelchair

If not

3) I would move.

Not many things would force me out of my house, but a violent nut job who physically attacks people is one of them!

I agree to an extent, the guy is a real nut job. The has been arrested often but somehow when local police get involve he walks.
Funnily enough last time he got convicted was for assaulting police.

As for the second option I was so tempted but don't walk in those circles and there is always the possibility of getting caught.

As for moving yes, if I could afford it. There is also the fact of who would buy knowing there is a nutter next door. I would have to tell them by law.

 

[arakis777]

Firstly the fence posts are cemented into the ground so can't be moved.

It must be special concrete then because I've shifted loads of concreted-in fence posts.

White picket fence, very...er...quaint?

So, you replaced a hedge with a fence so that people would have a better view of the neighbour, should he wish to strangle your wife in your house?

...which he did but "got off with it" having been tried in front of a jury?

What a bizarre post.

They are odd bug gers them planning folk. They did something similar when we built a new wall where a hedge had been partially demolished by a bad van driver only for the homeowner to be told to re-plant the hedge in front of the new wall.

OK Could be moved but with great difficulty and would be costly and mean cutting into it, to move it back 5 feet.

I know it sounds quaint but it really looks very professional

My wife was planning to remove hedge as we were totally blocked in, when she was attacked I had the hedge taken down straight away. I didn't take down the neighbour's hedge. We can now be easily seen which hopefully make him think twice about trying to break in and attack her again. We also installed CCTV and an alarm.

His trial was at the magistrates in front of three magistrates. Had he been in front of a jury there is no way he would have been acquitted.

So in all not really a bizarre post. Just looking for advice on how best to challenge. Would a petition from neighbours help?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Photo please.

 

[SimonH2]

It might be worth speaking to the planning officer you originally spoke to - see if you can get an inside view of what "went wrong" as it sounds like the planning officer was in support.

Others will probably rubbish this, but it sounds like very subjective grounds for refusal. I wonder whether you have grounds for appeal and how likely that would be. Also, if your neighbours (apart from psycho) support you, then that might help swing things.

EDIT: Also, would it work to plant a hedge in front of the fence to hide it. The hedge might "die of it's own accord" some time later

As for psycho, put up some CCTV. Include some obvious ones that only cover your own property, but also some covert ones leaving no gaps. It won't stop an attack, but it does mean you'll have evidence should another one happen.

It's sad, but scum like this do seem to get away with it. At work, our account manager at one of our suppliers also has neighbours from hell. Bricks through the windows and that sort of stuff. The real icing on the cake was when they pulled his fence down, then sued him for (IIRC) £20k for personal injury His insurers paid up on the grounds that they couldn't prove who pulled the fence down, and it would more likely cost them more to defend it than pay out. He can't afford to move either.

It does sometimes seem like the only way to not get shafted is (as Indus hints) know people who can "persuade" the scum to back off. Like you, I don't know people like that.

 

[rjm2k]

Well, I initially thought this thread was a wind up, however a little use of google reveals the OP has been through rather a lot one way or another over the last fews years!

Hi
Last year my wife and I had our poor quality front hedge taken down and replaced by an expensive white American style PVC picket fence. It is not garish or over the top in any way. It is meant to never fade in colour and we bought it from a UK based company. We had it professionally installed and had loads of compliments from our neighbours and even passers by.

None of that is of much relevance to planning.

Hi
Anyway he complained to the council that our fence is marginally over 1 metre at the front. While technically correct, it is set back over a foot from the path edge (we have a grass strip running along this width), there is also the fact we have a raised road so the fence is actually lower than the road!

I can't picture this, can you post a photo? (without your neighbour seeing you taking one, don't want to make things worse!)

A nice lady from the planning dept came out told my wife she thought the fence was 'lovely' and we shouldn't have a problem if we raised a retrospective planning permission request.

no such creature exists

....
National Planning Policy Framework
....
Section 64
....

Now, you need to tell us if your property has Permitted Development rights, if you are in a conservation or other special area, if you live in an "Open Plan" area with covenants in your deeds

If you have PD and none of the rest are true, then there is no way they can stop you from having a 1m fence adjacent to the front boundary.

Firstly the fence posts are cemented into the ground so can't be moved.

Of course it can.

 

[arakis777]

Photo please.

Here is the Pic.

//www.diynot.com/network/arakis777/albums/

We have taken down the for sale sign as we realised we will lose a lot on the house.

The psycho next door has recently out up a six foot garden fence along our former shared path. Apparently that is OK by the council but not our fence.

We also put in a new private linked to the gate as seen.

The grass strip in front is where the old hedge was, so the fence is actually behind where the hedge was situated. The council now want us to move this fence almost 4 feet back again and paint it black or brown! Worst of all put the same type of hedge back. The original couldn't be trimmed properly as behind the bare front of leaves is just twigs. It was a cheap box hedge I was told.

 

[SimonH2]

Untitled

• arakis777
• 19 Aug 2013
• 1

For future refence, to include a picture in a posting, you can either copy and paste the text in the "DIYnot BBCode:" box above your image, or click on "Show My Images" below the posting edit box and click on the image you want to insert.

 

[arakis777]

Thanks for the info on pasting pics.

My wife spoke to the planning officer who came out and she said she was very nice. Loved the fence and and said retrospective planning shouldn't be a problem.

The strange thing is the same lady emailed me back after the refusal to ask if I wished to now lower the fence! (obviously they don't speak to one another). I wrote back politely last week saying height was not mentioned in the actual refusal at all.

As far as I am aware I have Permitted Development rights and we are not in a conservation or any other special area. One point though my house used to belong to the railway (we bought over two years ago on the open market), the psycho's house next door used to be council and they bought under 'right to buy' scheme. Our nice neighbour on the other side of the overgrown hedge rents from the council I believe. The road is a real mixture of detached/ semi / bungalows / terrace houses. The frontages of the houses also differ i.e. gray, black brown green (and now white picket fences. Metal railing fences, hedges, open plan etc.

I hope this info helps. We have already installed three CCTV cameras (hidden behind tree), an alarm and a security light near the door. This I am sure has kept psycho at bay since the attack.

 

[big-all]

if you have a registered dispute with the neibours you will have to declare it on the home buyers survey
this will detract from the value you will get
so if possible avoid registering disputes

 

[tony1851]

If it was only a little over 1m high, you should not have applied for retrospective planning permission. You have merely given the council the opportunity to dump the ball firmly in your court.
You should have left it, and the chances are that they wouldn't have felt confident in taking enforcement action over a minor breach of the p.d. rules.

 

[arakis777]

No issue is Psycho next door called the council out on me saying it was over 1 metre in height. When the planning officer came out she said we had to apply for retrospective planning permission because it is over 1 metre, but couldn't see an issue and really like the fence.

Anyway application was refused not for height but that it is somehow out of character ,which is a load of BS.

We also know we have register disputes hence the reason we gave up on moving.

 

[tony1851]

When the planning officer came out she said we had to

If she'd have said that you had to stick a broom handle up your backside so that you could sweep the floor while walking, would you have done so?

No one can order anyone to submit a planning application - it is not a criminal offence not to.

The fact that the excess height was not one of the grounds for refusal is neither here nor there. You should not have given the council the opportunity to refuse p.p. - for whatever reason - in the first place.
Chances are that they wouldn't have pursued it had you sent them a firmly-worded letter.