Plug sockets on skirting

[DanRo]

Hello Everyone,

i'm decorating a bedroom and the existing surface mounted plug sockets sit on top of the old 100mm skirting with surface cable leading down below in plastic conduit through the floor.

In an ideal world I would like new 175mm skirting and enough slack on the wire to sink it in the wall and come above the skirting for nice plug sockets. Just investigated and there is little or no slack on the wires.

I would presume it is a no no to have plug sockets cut into the skirting. Plus it looks awful.

Is there a safe way to [preferably myself] extend the wiring by joining under the floor to give me the lengths I need. There are three double sockets in the room.

Any help
Thanks

 

[oharaf]

use butt crimps to extend each cable and heat shrink.

You need a PROPER crimping tool!!! (£20+)

No get the things out the skirting!!!!!

Have you had you electrical install 'checked' if your sockets are in the skirting it may well be time for 'replacing' the cable

 

[lewis1979]

hi

you need a small junction box for joining wires, secure the wires with the screws, join the new wire secure the wire and role out as much as you need

 

[ColJack]

lewis, please don't post incorrect advise..

the use of terminal boxes is not permitted where they will be covered up and unavailable for inspection, such as under a floor..

crimping the cables and placing in an enclosure or heat shrinking them is a viable option in this case, but ideally replacing the cable with longer ones would be preferable..

presuming that the room has more than 1 socket and has one "in" and one "out" , then the cables inbetween should be changed.. this allows for more sockets to be installed at the same time should you need to..

 

[IJWS15]

My parents had a house with sockets in the skirting . . .

The skirting was about 15" high and the sockets about 10" off the floor.

 

[kevindgas]

My parents had a house with sockets in the skirting . . .

The skirting was about 15" high and the sockets about 10" off the floor.

in the old days this was permitted as where wooden backboxes both are now old school!!

sockets should now be 450mm off floor but it is accepted that existing systems may use the old average of 25mm above skirtings

 

[ban-all-sheds]

sockets should now be 450mm off floor

Define "should"....

 

[ericmark]

lewis, please don't post incorrect advise..

the use of terminal boxes is not permitted where they will be covered up and unavailable for inspection, such as under a floor..

So why do Hager advertise "Maintenance free JB" be careful when criticising others. I do agree "Lewis" maybe should have said he was referring to "Maintenance free" types of junction box and to point out they need to be that type is correct.

crimping the cables and placing in an enclosure or heat shrinking them is a viable option in this case, but ideally replacing the cable with longer ones would be preferable..

presuming that the room has more than 1 socket and has one "in" and one "out" , then the cables inbetween should be changed.. this allows for more sockets to be installed at the same time should you need to..

For a DIY man what chance do you think there is of him correctly using crimps and heat shrink? I find trying to instruct a DIY man on how to test it is a ring main before adding more sockets or testing the completed work is useless and the more units are used which require little skill the less likely hood there is for mistakes and does no matter how many times you tell the DIY man he need proper crimp pliers at £25 each he will still use those cheap ones which come in a packet with a few crimps.

So I am not too keen to suggest crimps even though it is method I would use.

 

[DeadJoe]

I'm a DIYer who spent £20.00 on a proper ratchet crimping tool, and spent some time reading up on correctly using it. It struck me that if I used it just once, it will have paid for itself. It also means I can sleep at night, safe in the knowledge that my crimped connections are not going to fail and/or cause a fire.

I reckon the sort of person who uses the useless cheap crimping tool and thinks it is OK is going to be a hazard whatever you tell them.

 

[Zambezi]

I'm a DIYer who spent £20.00 on a proper ratchet crimping tool, and spent some time reading up on correctly using it. It struck me that if I used it just once, it will have paid for itself. It also means I can sleep at night, safe in the knowledge that my crimped connections are not going to fail and/or cause a fire.

I reckon the sort of person who uses the useless cheap crimping tool and thinks it is OK is going to be a hazard whatever you tell them.

Good on you!
You are right, some people can't be helped

 

[ColJack]

eric, the debate is still on about whether those JB's are suitable as a concealed joint..
I for one say they are not.. it's clearly not a joint made by a compression tool and as such cannot be placed where it cannot be accessed for inspection..

Hagers claims are their own business, it's up to the IEE to decide if they conform to their regs.. and until I see an official stamp of approval, then I'll not use them where they are inaccessible.
so far they have not been around long enough to determine if they remain good tight connections over a period of years with repeated heating and cooling due to high loads..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So why do Hager advertise "Maintenance free JB"

If you read that web page you'll see it's quite cleverly worded, with the phrase "so called 'inaccessible' areas".

The product may well be maintenance free, but "maintenance free" is not what 526.3 requires.

More clever wording is "Complies with wiring regulations". I'm sure it does, but which ones?

Cannot help noticing that there is no explicit, definite claim that the product complies with 526.3 as a connection which doesn't need to be accessible for inspection, testing & maintenance...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm a DIYer who spent £20.00 on a proper ratchet crimping tool, and spent some time reading up on correctly using it. It struck me that if I used it just once, it will have paid for itself. It also means I can sleep at night, safe in the knowledge that my crimped connections are not going to fail and/or cause a fire.

I reckon the sort of person who uses the useless cheap crimping tool and thinks it is OK is going to be a hazard whatever you tell them.

Good on you!
You are right, some people can't be helped

I've bought 4......

 

[ericmark]

412.1 will be complied which comes before 526.3 in my book.
But ask why we should not use junction boxes. As I understand it is because vibration has been know to cause screws to work lose.
Is this problem redressed with new design. Yes it is.
So I would say it comes under (v) A joint forming part of the equipment complying with the appropriate product standard.

Also 120.4 New materials and inventions
Where the use of a new material or invention leads to departures from the Regulations, the resulting degree of safety of the installation shall be not less than that obtained by compliance with the Regulations. Such use is to be noted on the Electrical Installation Certificate specified in Part 6.

We all know the regulations are a guide with a second guide to help you read a guide I wonder if we will ever get a Guide to on site guide? But it is not law and you need some common sense. We realise we can't apply 522.6.5 to SELV and we also look at 314.1 as allowing us to use just 2 RCD's.

There comes a time when one needs to use common sense rather than blindly following the regulations.

Even when we go to events arranged by the IET in 17th Edition we find the speaker is from NICEIC so we never do manage to collar the guys in their ivory towers who wrote it. Who don't know their rule of thumb from historically anyway.

I have seen attempts to follow the regulations with three crimps hidden in plaster with no shrink or self amalgamating tape around the joints and if I compare both methods give me the Hager Maintenance free JB every time.

Yes 1 out of 10 DIY people may get it right with crimps but more like 9 of of 10 get it right with Hager's box so I will go for that option!

 

[ColJack]

412.1 will be complied which comes before 526.3 in my book.

what's that got to do with it? an installation has to comply with all parts of the regs, not just the first one you come to..

But ask why we should not use junction boxes. As I understand it is because vibration has been know to cause screws to work lose.

no, connections work lose through repeated heating and cooling cycles when a sizeable load is used, such as showers, cookers and heavily loaded ringmains..

Is this problem redressed with new design. Yes it is.

Don't know, havent seen the data and it doesn't have external approval to back up any internal claims..