Pointing Accrington Nori brick

[Matty Timber]

Hi

I need to do a bit of pointing on my house. I think the bricks are Accrington Nori bricks and so the joints between are very thin. We're getting damp on the internal wall of the affected area.

I'm struggling to find clear advice on the best way to point it. I've read that lime mortar is recommended, or to use some form of mastic with a gun.

I've put a picture below so you can see what I'm up against. I think previous repairs have used different materials given the different colours. guessing there's been a bit of movement to cause some of the damage.

I was reading this thread https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/pointing-old-victorian-1905-house-engineering-bricks.430705/ but there didn't seem to be a conclusive solution.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[noseall]

Jeezus H Christ! I'd run a mile from that re-pointing job. Are there even any joints there?

 

[Notch7]

Im not sure a sand cement based mortar would work

maybe it needs to be lime putty or some sort of specialist epoxy mortar

looks like a job from hell

 

[Charlie George]

Jeezus H Christ! I'd run a mile from that re-pointing job. Are there even any joints there?

You want to try rebuilding a gable using them, a bucket of mortar does about 40 brick, a very common brick in NW not the easiest or cheapest to point though.
Most local pointing companies use a 4mm mortar raking blade blade to rake out a uniform bed, and use a thin finger trowel to point with, they also seem mostly to use sand and cement, though have seen a few using red mastic which can look impressive, not a job for a diy'er and check work of anyone you get quotes from, done badly it can look awful.

 

[stuart45]

If using sand/lime mix you need a really fine sand. Our local lime supplier has a few different ones in stock for these kind of jobs.
Finer sands need more binder.

 

[noseall]

You want to try rebuilding a gable using them, a bucket of mortar does about 40 brick, a very common brick in NW not the easiest or cheapest to point though.
Most local pointing companies use a 4mm mortar raking blade blade to rake out a uniform bed, and use a thin finger trowel to point with, they also seem mostly to use sand and cement, though have seen a few using red mastic which can look impressive, not a job for a diy'er and check work of anyone you get quotes from, done badly it can look awful.

We built an extension south of Tamworth (Dordon) using 5-7mm brick joints. Absolute frikkin nightmare.
There is a reason the standard is 10mm.

 

[mrrusty]

Either by trowelling mastic or make your own with sand and double boiled linseed oil. It's supposed to be burnt sand https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product/pointing-mastic/ but I've found no problem with ordinary dry sand.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

We built an extension south of Tamworth (Dordon) using 5-7mm brick joints. Absolute frikkin nightmare.
There is a reason the standard is 10mm.

I was involved in a job where the architect / client chose an unusual facing brick. Can’t remember the exact size but something like 285x55mm. To make matters worse they were only used on certain panels with standard brick/blockwork being used elsewhere. The brickies had to be absolutely bang on with the coursing so that the tops of the panels lined up perfectly with the standard brickwork.

They knocked down a £1.5m house to build it, was initially priced at £2.3m and ended up costing over £3m

 

[stuart45]

Burnt sand mastic is really for pointing up between timber framed and masonry, rather than the joints in brickwork. Lime mortar is really the correct thing to use.

 

[mrrusty]

Burnt sand mastic is really for pointing up between timber framed and masonry

It's also used for pointing accrington/nori brick where the joints are only 2-3mm

Often the surface of the brick is subsequently polished with the same oil.

 

[stuart45]

People use it for pointing bricks like Nori's, but lime mortar is the correct mix. Mastic is used because they can grind out the joints making them slightly larger and damage the bricks, and repoint with something that is the same colour so the joints can't be easily seen.
If you see a job that has be carefully raked out and repointed in lime mortar with thin white joints you can see the difference. A brick wall pointed with red mastic looks like it's been painted.
I used to work for a firm whose owner was with SPAB, so the work on any listed buildings have to be done properly. A lot of the pro pointers are only doing the jobs with methods that suit them, and aren't time served tradesmen to start with.

 

[mrrusty]

It's an interesting subject and it's difficult to find any original - i.e. old information. However, I did find this reference from 1890's talking about using boiled linseed oil mastic http://www.stevelewis.me.uk/page73.php (albeit on a chimney). I've used mastic on my own house and it dries hard and seems a suitable material. I agree if it's a red mastic it looks a little wrong, but the burnt sand mastic colour can of course also be contrasting.

 

[stuart45]

Fred Dibnah used to use it on the big industrial chimneys. It's easy to use on fine joints compared to normal building sand. The reason people have trouble with using mortar is that you can't expect to use sand that's been through a 4mm sieve in a 2mm joint. You need a really fine sand.
The technique for laying bricks like this was different. The bottom was buttered up and then laid to the line, instead of spreading the bed on the course below.
A linseed oil/turps mix makes engineering bricks look good for a while, but goes dull. Lasts.long enough for the cheque to clear.

 

[Matty Timber]

Thanks for all the replies. It been very education and quite interesting.

I'm starting to think this might be a job for a professional. Moreover, it sounds like I need someone with specific experience in pointing Nori bricks!

 

[^woody^]

It's easy to use on fine joints compared to normal building sand. The reason people have trouble with using mortar is that you can't expect to use sand that's been through a 4mm sieve in a 2mm joint. You need a really fine sand.
The technique for laying bricks like this was different. The bottom was buttered up and then laid to the line, instead of spreading the bed on the course below.

Did you ever have the pleasure of laying white glazed bricks like that? I didn't, looks like I got to the party a bit late, but I do recall my "caring" site manager/mentor actively looking for projects in my firm and some of the other big firms where he had contacts trying to find a job that was using these glazed bricks, as part of my training.