Police Broke down door into one of my properties

[HawkEye244]

You've not answered the question with that Hawk!

Sod, we have laws in this country. All sorts of funny business takes place that is not just illegal but unlawful, that is why we have a justice system. If there is harm, loss or injury people need to be accountable. You can't just say ''oh it's such and such they can go around destroying property because the law doesn't apply to them'' which is the crux of your argument.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Sod, we have laws in this country. All sorts of funny business takes place that is not just illegal but unlawful, that is why we have a justice system. If there is harm, loss or injury people need to be accountable. You can't just say ''oh it's such and such they can go around destroying property because the law doesn't apply to them'' which is the crux of your argument.

My whole 'argument' is that you said on several occasions the police can't enter a property, forced or otherwise, without a warrant. That's all I've been talking about, it's all I have issue with.
I'm not the one who said they can't, you are. I've given you links to say they can, other people have done the same. But you still won't see that the police can, legally, enter a property without a warrant in certain cases.

Police need a warrant to enter a property. If they don't have a warrant they are breaking the law.

 

[Notch7]

Hawkeye has a great deal of interest in the powers of the police to enter a property.

Vested interest?

Maybe when it snows, his roof is the first in the street to melt away

 

[HawkEye244]

My whole 'argument' is that you said on several occasions the police can't enter a property, forced or otherwise, without a warrant. That's all I've been talking about, it's all I have issue with.
I'm not the one who said they can't, you are. I've given you links to say they can, other people have done the same. But you still won't see that the police can, legally, enter a property without a warrant in certain cases.

They can but the conditions over which this can happen are extremely confusing - so confusing its ultimately why we have a process by which evidence is obtained and warrants are issued, based on evidence. What I'm keen not to see in this country is wrecklessness, is that the sort of country you want to be living in ? Do you like the idea of gangs of henchmen being able to break down doors without the necessary intelligence being gathered ? I'm for apprehending criminals yes, I'm not for the overzealous use of force.

 

[sodthisforfun]

They can but the conditions over which this can happen are extremely confusing - so confusing its ultimately why we have a process by which evidence is obtained and warrants are issued, based on evidence. What I'm keen not to see in this country is wrecklessness, is that the sort of country you want to be living in ? Do you like the idea of gangs of henchmen being able to break down doors without the necessary intelligence being gathered ? I'm for apprehending criminals yes, I'm not for the overzealous use of force.

Right, so they can you now say - that's all I wanted!! You denied it and told me I was clueless....
The rest of it is a different matter.

 

[HawkEye244]

Hawkeye has a great deal of interest in the powers of the police to enter a property.

Vested interest?

Maybe when it snows, his roof is the first in the street to melt away

I don't have an interest in police breaking into people's houses as much as I have an interest in maintainig the sovereign rights of the individual. If a law abiding person suffers as a result of gross negligence by the police I would expect them to have some recourse or compensation.

There appear to be those that side with the police regardless of the circumstances by which they may be executing their duties. To these people I ask were it to happen to you, how would you feel then ? The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

 

[HawkEye244]

Right, so they can you now say - that's all I wanted!! You denied it and told me I was clueless....
The rest of it is a different matter.

Well you are clueless in some respects, the information you posted about baillifs is wrong. There's also ambiguity surrounding the definition of 'force'. I suspect within that definition will be many caveats, so I've not really learnt anything I didn't already know, I've just conceded on the grounds that if someone running from the police entered a property it makes logical sense that the police would force entry in such haste, although I've never known for this to happen.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Well you are clueless in some respects, the information you posted about baillifs is wrong. There's also ambiguity surrounding the definition of 'force'. I suspect within that definition will be many caveats, so I've not really learnt anything I didn't already know, I've just conceded on the grounds that if someone running from the police entered a property it makes logical sense that the police would force entry in such haste, although I've never known for this to happen.

Wow. Thanks.
You've been proven wrong on your statement that police can't enter a property without a warrant. All along I have said that's not true, in certain situations. I've given you links, but you either didn't read them or still thought you knew the law better than anyone else. The amount of force isn't actually relevant, if they need to enter a property they won't let a door stop them.

However, it was very big of you to 'concede'.

The link you posted has faulty information. A bailiff cannot use force to enter a property unless there is a possession order. There is no civil debt that allows forceful entry, CCJs are worthless. That website is bullsh1t and shame on them for publishing it - then again what do you expect from some debt advice company.

Ps, baillifs, in certain situations, can force entry with a warrant. I just let it drop because I got tired of it all as you'd already told me the link I gave you was wrong. If you went and looked yourself at other websites then you'd have seen it wasn't actually wrong.


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https://www.payplan.com/advice/collection-of-debts/dealing-with-bailiffs/
Can a bailiff force entry?

The answer to this depends on the type of debt they are collecting, and whether they have visited before. If they are collecting an unpaid CCJ and this is their first visit, they cannot force entry. There are however certain situations where bailiffs can force entry, including:

• Collecting unpaid fines: As a last resort they can force entry, whether they have been in your home before or not, if they have a Magistrates Court warrant.
• They have gained peaceful entry before: If they have been in your property before by means of ‘peaceable entry’, they can force entry when they next visit if you do not allow them in.
• County Court bailiffs entering a commercial property: They can only do this if there is no living accommodation attached. They need permission from the court to force entry into any commercial property.
• Collecting income tax or VAT: They must also have permission from the court – for example a tax collector with a warrant from a Magistrates court. And they can only do this if they failed in a previous attempt at ‘peaceable entry’.
• Following goods: Where entry was gained from a different property and made a levy, and they are now following the goods.

--------
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/d...ping-bailiffs/stopping-bailiffs-at-your-door/
Check if the bailiff can force entry
The bailiff could have the right to force entry to your home or business if they’re collecting:

• unpaid magistrates court fines, for example if you were given a fine for not paying your TV licence
• tax debts for HM Revenue and Customs, for example if you owe income tax

They’ll need to show you proof of what you owe and a 'warrant' or a document called a ‘writ’ from a court. Check any documents are signed and in date and have your correct name and address.

-------

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/bailiff-action/Pages/Bailiff-golden-rules.aspx


when can bailiffs force entry?
There are limited situations when a bailiff can force entry to your property if they have not been in before.

• The bailiff is collecting a criminal magistrates’ court fine.
• HM Revenue and Customs are collecting tax debts. The court’s permission is needed for this.
• County court bailiffs or High Court Enforcement Officers can break into business property.
• In practice, it is rare for these types of bailiff to force entry. Also, remember that other types of bailiff should not force entry if they have not been in before.

So that's citizens advice & national debt helpline that both have it wrong eh, let alone all the other places dishing out wrong information. What on earth are they all doing? Why hasn't anyone told them? Come on Hawk, please do some reading!

 

[HawkEye244]

Wow. Thanks.
You've been proven wrong on your statement that police can't enter a property without a warrant. All along I have said that's not true, in certain situations. I've given you links, but you either didn't read them or still thought you knew the law better than anyone else. The amount of force isn't actually relevant, if they need to enter a property they won't let a door stop them.

However, it was very big of you to 'concede'.



Ps, baillifs, in certain situations, can force entry with a warrant. I just let it drop because I got tired of it all as you'd already told me the link I gave you was wrong. If you went and looked yourself at other websites then you'd have seen it wasn't actually wrong.


-------
https://www.payplan.com/advice/collection-of-debts/dealing-with-bailiffs/
Can a bailiff force entry?

The answer to this depends on the type of debt they are collecting, and whether they have visited before. If they are collecting an unpaid CCJ and this is their first visit, they cannot force entry. There are however certain situations where bailiffs can force entry, including:

• Collecting unpaid fines: As a last resort they can force entry, whether they have been in your home before or not, if they have a Magistrates Court warrant.
• They have gained peaceful entry before: If they have been in your property before by means of ‘peaceable entry’, they can force entry when they next visit if you do not allow them in.
• County Court bailiffs entering a commercial property: They can only do this if there is no living accommodation attached. They need permission from the court to force entry into any commercial property.
• Collecting income tax or VAT: They must also have permission from the court – for example a tax collector with a warrant from a Magistrates court. And they can only do this if they failed in a previous attempt at ‘peaceable entry’.
• Following goods: Where entry was gained from a different property and made a levy, and they are now following the goods.

--------
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/d...ping-bailiffs/stopping-bailiffs-at-your-door/
Check if the bailiff can force entry
The bailiff could have the right to force entry to your home or business if they’re collecting:

• unpaid magistrates court fines, for example if you were given a fine for not paying your TV licence
• tax debts for HM Revenue and Customs, for example if you owe income tax

They’ll need to show you proof of what you owe and a 'warrant' or a document called a ‘writ’ from a court. Check any documents are signed and in date and have your correct name and address.

-------

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/bailiff-action/Pages/Bailiff-golden-rules.aspx


when can bailiffs force entry?
There are limited situations when a bailiff can force entry to your property if they have not been in before.

• The bailiff is collecting a criminal magistrates’ court fine.
• HM Revenue and Customs are collecting tax debts. The court’s permission is needed for this.
• County court bailiffs or High Court Enforcement Officers can break into business property.
• In practice, it is rare for these types of bailiff to force entry. Also, remember that other types of bailiff should not force entry if they have not been in before.

So that's citizens advice & national debt helpline that both have it wrong eh, let alone all the other places dishing out wrong information. What on earth are they all doing? Why hasn't anyone told them? Come on Hawk, please do some reading!

Sod, I suggest you carefully re-read the wording of the links you posted above..

You are way out of your depth with this. You don't know what you are talking about.