Postal Voting and Fraud

[Notch7]

General elections should be done by proportional representation

Totally agree

Zero chance of that happening in the next parliament because:

A) we’ve recently had a very divisive referendum

B) the right wing media would gaslight the nation and destroy any useful, honest debate.


If there was PR voting, the Conservative Party would be finished forever

 

[Murdochcat]

If there was PR voting, the Conservative Party would be finished forever

Not sure I agree with that.

I don’t think any party has achieved 50% of the votes in the last century.

Sure PR would allow most of the smaller parties to be represented and that wouldn’t be a bad thing

However the UK could end up like Italy with constant changes of goverment

 

[Notch7]

I think PR would be a good idea.

The coelition of 2010 was a reasonable demonstration of the benefits

FPTP makes it impossible for political leaders / parties to have the policies they really want.

The 2017 election was a good example.

Jeremy Corbyn ignored political strategy, he chose policies that were directed at the liberal left quadrant. He got lots and lots of votes, but they were concentrated in Labour heartlands…..so all he achieved was a lousy 30seat gain.


Keir Starmer on the other hand is making sure Labours strategy deliberately avoids alienating swing voters in the 120+ marginals that Labour need to switch. It’s why Starmer is criticised so much for not having clear policies.

It’s the exact same reason Boris Johnson came up with the slogan “levelling up” - it kind of means something, but is such a generic term it can be sold to any voter.


FPTP is crazy, 70% of voters effectively have no say as they live in constituencies with big majorities. Effectively elections are decided by a small number of swing voters

 

[Notch7]

Not sure I agree with that.

I don’t think any party has achieved 50% of the votes in the last century.

Sure PR would allow most of the smaller parties to be represented and that wouldn’t be a bad thing

However the UK could end up like Italy with constant changes of goverment

I guess it depends on the type of PR

PR would definitely split the Labour Party, it’s always been 2 parties anyway.

 

[noseall]

Unlike you Bertrude,

Bertrude, lol.

I think he might actually be Bertrand...

 

[Murdochcat]

I guess it depends on the type of PR

PR would definitely split the Labour Party, it’s always been 2 parties anyway.

What do you mean by type of PR ?

Eg 30% of the vote = 30% of the MPs etc

 

[noseall]

What do others think?

In terms of millions of votes cast, I'd say voter fraud in the UK is virtually non existent.

 

[ellal]

PR doesn't really help. It just creates a world of shady backroom dealing and the formation of coalitions that don't necessarily deliver on any election promises. At the last German general election, it took several months before the electorate found out who would govern them.

Germany hasn't done so badly over the years under PR has it!

What PR would do in the UK is temper the regular swings between left and right with an approach that is beneficial to more of the population...

And more importantly, more people would feel like their vote counts!

 

[ellal]

30% of the vote = 30% of the MPs etc

The only fair way of doing it...

But with less MPs and the abolition of the House of Lards

Had PR been in place before the brexit referendum was proposed, Garbage and his gang would have quite rightly won a fair few seats...

But that suicidal referendum would have never taken place!

 

[Murdochcat]

The only fair way of doing it...

But with less MPs and the abolition of the House of Lards

Had PR been in place before the brexit referendum was proposed, Garbage and his gang would have quite rightly won a fair few seats...

But that suicidal referendum would have never taken place!

What do you think abolishing the HoL would achieve?

 

[johnny2007]

screams of voter fraud always seem to come from the right
ironic considering the Conservative non stop efforts in giving themselves an advantage with boundary change, pork barrel politics, and voter ID

Can you please explain how measures to prevent voter fraud can advantage the right parties?

 

[berty3000]

Germany hasn't done so badly over the years under PR has it!

What PR would do in the UK is temper the regular swings between left and right with an approach that is beneficial to more of the population...

And more importantly, more people would feel like their vote counts!

Debatable whether it's made any difference compared to the other thousand variables involved in whether a country is doing "badly" or not, and compared to the other electoral options available.

You are totally misunderstanding what is going on in your own country and then reaching for irrelevant solutions. There isn't any swing from left to right, the entire political edifice has moved to the left in the past 30 years and keeps going. The choice now is between two left wing parties (very left wing by historic, British standards), plus some other options that won't win but are basically the same. In other words, the problem is with parties and the way they are so easily captured. PR doesn't solve this problem.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Debatable whether it's made any difference compared to the other thousand variables involved in whether a country is doing "badly" or not, and compared to the other electoral options available.

You are totally misunderstanding what is going on in your own country and then reaching for irrelevant solutions. There isn't any swing from left to right, the entire political edifice has moved to the left in the past 30 years and keeps going. The choice now is between two left wing parties (very left wing by historic, British standards), plus some other options that won't win but are basically the same. In other words, the problem is with parties and the way they are so easily captured. PR doesn't solve this problem.

That's another load of rubbish.

We are further to the right now than we have been for, certainly the last 30 years .

Pr would give a better spread of parties and less dominance to any.

Its probably the best way of getting politicians who are listening to the voters

 

[Murdochcat]

That's another load of rubbish.

We are further to the right now than we have been for, certainly the last 30 years .

Not sure I agree with that.

certainly SM is full of people making wild claims but to say the UK is right wing is a bit extreme - and as the next Government is likely to be very close to what we have now then we'll still be right wing using your ideas

The UK's major parties are so close its tricky to tell them apart at times

 

[ellal]

What do you think abolishing the HoL would achieve?

Getting rid of blatant political cronyism perhaps?

Why not a second elected chamber rather than an unelected one?