Private Message replies to threads.

[SUNRAY]

EDIT: This was originally my reply within 'four toothbrush chargers...', however I've moved it here toavoid scaring OP away.

I won't say who sent this PM and have only included a couple of quotes from it to avoid too much embarrassment as the wording used would probably reveal the authors identity.

Why are you giving irreverent advice as (s)he is quite cleary not in a foreign country.
I doubt you even know the difference between a Europlug and BS4573

However I will publicly answer those two points.

First of all I have treated the OP in a serious manner with advice which I feel is relevant to the question.
I have given links to products which I believe are relevant to the question raised and others have given equally relevant and appropriate ideas. There is nothing wrong with suggesting using a Eurosocket if the OP does have Europlugs, I quite franky cannot see the difference between the items I linked to and the shaver adaptors pictured. Additionally until next year we are still bounded by the EU rules and as such electrical work and accessories may be to any member states regs.

Yes I certainly do know the difference between the standards, I have been working with mains connectors for the best part of 60 years and working within the public entertainment sector for a good deal of that have built up quite a collection of different nations connectors.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Well, The words you quote are not mine. But I did comment on your post with a quote from wikipedia. I do believe that there may be a misunderstanding. The products that the OP was showing (the Braun chargers) are generally fitted with BS 4573 plugs. BS 4573 rates these at 200mA, with exceptions going as high as 800mA for suitable products. They are not 5A plugs; they just have similar dimensions to the old British 5A plug. The adapters from 13A to 2 pin are very often made to accommodate both 2 pin C-type and BS 4573, but good quality Schuko adapter strips are not usually.

 

[Taylortwocities]

@SUNRAY there is no way that any of your post was irreverent (sic)!

 

[SUNRAY]

Well, The words you quote are not mine. But I did comment on your post with a quote from wikipedia. I do believe that there may be a misunderstanding. The products that the OP was showing (the Braun chargers) are generally fitted with BS 4573 plugs. BS 4573 rates these at 200mA, with exceptions going as high as 800mA for suitable products. They are not 5A plugs; they just have similar dimensions to the old British 5A plug. The adapters from 13A to 2 pin are very often made to accommodate both 2 pin C-type and BS 4573, but good quality Schuko adapter strips are not usually.

No, I know exactly who sent the PM and I confess I was tempted to quote it in full, complete with user name etc to demonstrate to the rest of the community what a nasty person he is.

The dimensions of BS 4573, as you indicated, are exactly the same as the 5A plugs to BS 73 & 372 [and a later standard, something like 544 which I never quite remember] However the way I read 4573 a long time ago I believe I recall that it only related to the transformer isolated socket for use with a 5A plug [which shavers seem to have been fitted with since forever] and Europlug. I became aware of changes [to the way I remembered it] which I'll predict coincided with BS1363 when the sleeved pins were introduced around mid 80's or so.

I've only had involvement with a few electric toothbrushes, probably a single hand count, and AFAIA they have all been fitted with Europlugs, bearing in mind that Europlugs have not always been to the current design either, previously parrallel pins, not the 'diamond' shape and not sleeved.

 

[333rocky333]

"(s)he" "cleary"
Two words and I think i know who you mean.
Dont let him get you down, you post mainly sound advice, i am sure theres a few here do it for attention, when clearly they know less than most of the posters on here.

 

[SUNRAY]

"(s)he" "cleary"
Two words and I think i know who you mean.
Dont let him get you down, you post mainly sound advice, i am sure theres a few here do it for attention, when clearly they know less than most of the posters on here.

Couldn't possibly comment

 

[plugwash]

I've only had involvement with a few electric toothbrushes, probably a single hand count, and AFAIA they have all been fitted with Europlugs, bearing in mind that Europlugs have not always been to the current design either, previously parrallel pins, not the 'diamond' shape and not sleeved.

I can't comment on what is or isn't common but I know the plug on my oral B toothbrush has ridgid sleeved pins that WILL NOT fit in a schuko socket because the spacing is too narrow. I presume it's to "UK shaver" standard but I have not measured it.

 

[ericmark]

I think the use of reversable plugs with a line - neutral system is flawed, however as you say permitted even if not complying with BS 7671 which is not law, or is it when landlord laws and building regulation laws require complancence to BS 7671.

To have different rules for rented and owner occupied domestic premises is wrong. However that is now what we have.

I don't like sending private messages, I have dyslexia and it is too easy for me to make an error the way I explain things. But private is or should be private, but I remember BAS sending me a private message sure direct email, so has happened, but rare.

I expected people not to like my post, but did not hide it, the tooth brush charger is often wireless, but once you have a 2 pin scoket you can't monitor what is plugged in.

 

[SUNRAY]

I think the use of reversable plugs with a line - neutral system is flawed, however as you say permitted even if not complying with BS 7671 which is not law, or is it when landlord laws and building regulation laws require complancence to BS 7671.

To have different rules for rented and owner occupied domestic premises is wrong. However that is now what we have.

I don't like sending private messages, I have dyslexia and it is too easy for me to make an error the way I explain things. But private is or should be private, but I remember BAS sending me a private message sure direct email, so has happened, but rare.

I expected people not to like my post, but did not hide it, the tooth brush charger is often wireless, but once you have a 2 pin scoket you can't monitor what is plugged in.

I don't believe there is any real issue with reversible plugs as long as the appliance is designed for it. Shaver sockets are of course floating so anything designed to be plugged into a shaver socket needs to take that into account, the problem my be when its plugged into a L-N system as you describe.

There is only one set of wiring regulations and the rental rules now state the property has to be wired to the latest regs, however the regs themselves state the wiring may be conform to a previous edition of the regs so realistically there is no actual difference between rental and non rental rules. I believe the perceived difference is only due to interpretation. Another however though is many of the authorities [including rental managing agents] have made very strict interpretations of the rules added their own, some of which I've already posted in the forum.

I have no issues with PM's, indeed I have 9 participants currently listed in mine but I don't see any additional problems with PM's over and above those in a forum thread. I wouldn't normally publish a PM but I confess I was sorely tempted to quote the whole thing on this occasion due to the possitively nasty message sent, i did think the two points raised were worthy of public comment and if I offend anyone other than the OP I sincerely apologise.

If you're referring to your post about fereign/non compliant adapters, I think you have adequately described your message and see no reason for people to not like it. As we are still under European rules it is perfectly acceptable to install to other member states regs and that includes sockets in bathrooms, non shuttered sockets etc. Therefore there is no reason to avoid installing a shuko socket in the UK as long as it is installed to an EU member states regs. Now that word however again, in rental properties the law/rules specifically state BS7671 which would exclude EU member states regs.

 

[SUNRAY]

I can't comment on what is or isn't common but I know the plug on my oral B toothbrush has ridgid sleeved pins that WILL NOT fit in a schuko socket because the spacing is too narrow. I presume it's to "UK shaver" standard but I have not measured it.

It's beginning to look like my limited experience with toothbrushes is far from typical, I thank you, and all others, for pointing this out.

I think it's also worth mentioning I have Braun and Philishave electric razors, both of which were sourced within UK and both have Europlugs.

 

[ericmark]

If I am reading what you say correctly then the landlord laws break the law by requiring use of BS 7671 so the law is illegal? As it breaks EU law.

 

[SUNRAY]

If I am reading what you say correctly then the landlord laws break the law by requiring use of BS 7671 so the law is illegal? As it breaks EU law.

Do you know, that point had not occurred to me.
I doubt it but it is just possible the law requiring the conformation [I hope thats a proper word] of our wiring regs in rental properties is worded in a similar way across Europe, ie to conform with their local regs.

 

[ericmark]

Since the law is not the same in Wales, I would not think it would apply to all Europe. In Wales the BS 7671 is not valid as not written with a Welsh version. So no Welsh law should refer to BS 7671 however they do, so are they illegal?

Not that it really matters as to not comply with the current version at the time of the design would also likely mean potentially dangerous, so would also come under other laws as well. The Part P and landlord laws just make it easier.

 

[JohnW2]

If I am reading what you say correctly then the landlord laws break the law by requiring use of BS 7671 so the law is illegal? As it breaks EU law.

Quite apart from the fact that in two day's time EU law will no longer apply to us, I don't really see how "The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020" would ever have been 'illegal', particularly given that it only relates to a part of the UK (it does not even apply to Wales, Scotland or NI).

There surely must be countless 'legal' laws in EU Member States (probably including ones relating to electrical installations) which differ between Member States without that having rendered them 'illegal' in terms of EU Law, mustn't there?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

With Part P it states it should comply with BS 7671 or similar, so one could if you wished build a home to German standards, and it would still comply with Part P, not sure how the LABC inspector would read the German regulations to ensure it did comply, and since the scheme providers all ask for it to comply with BS 7671 it could not be passed by them.

However we are talking about shaver sockets, 553.1.2 says "every plug and socket-outlet shall be of the non-reversible type" but the is an exception for clocks and shavers, (553.1.5) my old 2008 edition does NOT include tooth brushes.

There is also need for no larger than 3 amp fuse, but if you want to charge 4 shavers there is nothing to stop you having 4 grid shaver sockets and a 3 amp fuse except in the bathroom, but a socket like this would allow the reversing of two pin plugs so allowed by Part P but not with BS 7671, personally I see no problem with the socket. We used them all the time in Hong Kong.

But sockets for tooth brushes were not permitted by BS 7671:2008 as to if BS 7671:2018 has added tooth brush to the clock and shaver I don't know?